Can I run a new neutral wire to repair a broken circuit?How can I upgrade a 3 wire appliance receptacle to a 4 wire receptacle?How can I find an open neutral?Contractor cut wire in wall - all still works fine - is this dangerous?Need help troubleshooting dead outletsOutlet w/3 neutrals, 3 hots, 1 ground?Can I connect to a separate neutral (white) wire for my switch/outlet combination?Dead receptacle in the basementMultiple outlets not workingHow can I provide neutral wires for my smart switches?Neutral wire going into panel has ~120 volts on it

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Can I run a new neutral wire to repair a broken circuit?


How can I upgrade a 3 wire appliance receptacle to a 4 wire receptacle?How can I find an open neutral?Contractor cut wire in wall - all still works fine - is this dangerous?Need help troubleshooting dead outletsOutlet w/3 neutrals, 3 hots, 1 ground?Can I connect to a separate neutral (white) wire for my switch/outlet combination?Dead receptacle in the basementMultiple outlets not workingHow can I provide neutral wires for my smart switches?Neutral wire going into panel has ~120 volts on it













3















Recently one wall of outlets quit working. Testing shows the hots are all good and the grounds are all good but the neutrals are all dead. They are all connected to each other but somewhere have lost the connection to the panel.



Can I add a neutral from another nearby outlet which will make these outlets work without tearing up the walls to find where the neutral has become disconnected?










share|improve this question









New contributor




James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
























    3















    Recently one wall of outlets quit working. Testing shows the hots are all good and the grounds are all good but the neutrals are all dead. They are all connected to each other but somewhere have lost the connection to the panel.



    Can I add a neutral from another nearby outlet which will make these outlets work without tearing up the walls to find where the neutral has become disconnected?










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      3












      3








      3








      Recently one wall of outlets quit working. Testing shows the hots are all good and the grounds are all good but the neutrals are all dead. They are all connected to each other but somewhere have lost the connection to the panel.



      Can I add a neutral from another nearby outlet which will make these outlets work without tearing up the walls to find where the neutral has become disconnected?










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      Recently one wall of outlets quit working. Testing shows the hots are all good and the grounds are all good but the neutrals are all dead. They are all connected to each other but somewhere have lost the connection to the panel.



      Can I add a neutral from another nearby outlet which will make these outlets work without tearing up the walls to find where the neutral has become disconnected?







      electrical wiring






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 4 hours ago









      isherwood

      51.1k460130




      51.1k460130






      New contributor




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      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked 4 hours ago









      James WolfJames Wolf

      161




      161




      New contributor




      James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      James Wolf is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          7














          No, you cannot do this. Assuming the nearby outlet you want to borrow neutral from is on a different circuit, you will be overloading its neutral. Even if it is the same circuit, it's very bad practice to leave broken wiring energized without fixing it -- what if it moves a little and reconnects just enough to arc? Then your house is on fire.



          However, fixing this properly probably isn't as much work as you think. You most likely will not need to tear up your walls. Unless you recently drove a nail through a wire, the wire inside the walls usually doesn't just break. Rather, where things go wrong is at the outlets themselves. The so-called "backstab" outlets are especially prone to having the wires come lose over time. So the fix for this will involve pulling out each outlet in turn, making sure all screws, wirenuts, etc are tight, and ideally replacing any backstabs in the circuit. Most likely you'll find one of the outlets had the white wire come loose, and when you tighten it, everything starts working again.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 2





            The failure is usually at the last working outlet or the first non working outlet. In rare cases where nothing on the circuit works it can be in the panel.

            – Ed Beal
            3 hours ago











          • If a breaker was tripping you might think about damage to the wire between boxes more (drove a nail into a wire, etc) but it would be hard for wire damage to result in only a broken neutral. Find all the outlets that do work and start checking them starting with the closest one to the broken outlet.

            – JPhi1618
            3 hours ago











          • That's true; most likely OP can get away with only checking only two outlets IF they know what order the circuit is wired in. However, I still recommend opening them all up since most likely they were all wired at the same time with the same techniques, and if one failed, the others might not be far behind. And that way you don't need to know the circuit order, which most likely OP doesn't.

            – Nate Strickland
            2 hours ago


















          1














          Absolutely not. That sort of thinking works with safety ground, which does not ever carry current, except during a fault condition (and we hope there aren't 2 independent fault conditions occurring at once).



          However, current flows in loops. Neutral is the normal "return half" of the loop, and it needs to be dedicated to this circuit. In fact, neutrals don't have fuses and rely on the circuit breaker on the hot side to protect the neutral. You can't have two circuits sharing a neutral, or you get this!



          enter image description here




          But there's another problem. This is AC power. It reverses polarity 100/120 times a second, which throws electro-magnetic force into everything around the wires. That's why transformers work. To keep that from causing a lot of problems, we require that all the current that goes out one wire comes back on another in the same cable or conduit. Among the wires, currents are equal and opposite, so their electro-magnetic forces cancel each other out.



          Now, borrowing a neutral means current is now making a big loop - "out" (really, it's AC) this circuit's "hot" wire and returning via another circuit's "neutral" wire. That will throw EMF on both circuits, causing all sorts of mischief - eddy current heating, wire vibration leading to noise and metal fatigue leading to cracking and spot heating, etc. Nope.



          Because of this, all practical wiring is done on a physical "tree" topology -- a branch may "split", but it may never "loop back" onto itself or another branch (except in one particular way, and even then, only in the UK where this is officially sanctioned).




          Now, it can be hard to see when you're not practiced in a field. But this is most likely an easy problem. Wire breaks inside walls are rare. Wire problems are almost always at terminations of the cable run... And by definition, this must occur at either the last working outlet or the first failed outlet in the sequence.



          As Nate discusses in his answer, backstab connections are the usual culprit. You're best changing it to a screw connection, but current Code advises using an $80 torque screwdriver, because "too loose" is more of a problem than "too tight".



          If it's at the service panel, the neutral may go to a neutral bar, or a GFCI or AFCI breaker. Torque matters here too.



          Lastly, if this diagnosis is given you by a 3-light tester, know that some of us call it a "Magic 8-ball" tester. It is made as a pass-fail device for new wiring e.g. During new construction. When troubleshooting old existing work, the legends can be wrong to the point of whimsical. The lights are useful; they save you the trouble of making 3 measurements with a neon tester.






          share|improve this answer

























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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            7














            No, you cannot do this. Assuming the nearby outlet you want to borrow neutral from is on a different circuit, you will be overloading its neutral. Even if it is the same circuit, it's very bad practice to leave broken wiring energized without fixing it -- what if it moves a little and reconnects just enough to arc? Then your house is on fire.



            However, fixing this properly probably isn't as much work as you think. You most likely will not need to tear up your walls. Unless you recently drove a nail through a wire, the wire inside the walls usually doesn't just break. Rather, where things go wrong is at the outlets themselves. The so-called "backstab" outlets are especially prone to having the wires come lose over time. So the fix for this will involve pulling out each outlet in turn, making sure all screws, wirenuts, etc are tight, and ideally replacing any backstabs in the circuit. Most likely you'll find one of the outlets had the white wire come loose, and when you tighten it, everything starts working again.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 2





              The failure is usually at the last working outlet or the first non working outlet. In rare cases where nothing on the circuit works it can be in the panel.

              – Ed Beal
              3 hours ago











            • If a breaker was tripping you might think about damage to the wire between boxes more (drove a nail into a wire, etc) but it would be hard for wire damage to result in only a broken neutral. Find all the outlets that do work and start checking them starting with the closest one to the broken outlet.

              – JPhi1618
              3 hours ago











            • That's true; most likely OP can get away with only checking only two outlets IF they know what order the circuit is wired in. However, I still recommend opening them all up since most likely they were all wired at the same time with the same techniques, and if one failed, the others might not be far behind. And that way you don't need to know the circuit order, which most likely OP doesn't.

              – Nate Strickland
              2 hours ago















            7














            No, you cannot do this. Assuming the nearby outlet you want to borrow neutral from is on a different circuit, you will be overloading its neutral. Even if it is the same circuit, it's very bad practice to leave broken wiring energized without fixing it -- what if it moves a little and reconnects just enough to arc? Then your house is on fire.



            However, fixing this properly probably isn't as much work as you think. You most likely will not need to tear up your walls. Unless you recently drove a nail through a wire, the wire inside the walls usually doesn't just break. Rather, where things go wrong is at the outlets themselves. The so-called "backstab" outlets are especially prone to having the wires come lose over time. So the fix for this will involve pulling out each outlet in turn, making sure all screws, wirenuts, etc are tight, and ideally replacing any backstabs in the circuit. Most likely you'll find one of the outlets had the white wire come loose, and when you tighten it, everything starts working again.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 2





              The failure is usually at the last working outlet or the first non working outlet. In rare cases where nothing on the circuit works it can be in the panel.

              – Ed Beal
              3 hours ago











            • If a breaker was tripping you might think about damage to the wire between boxes more (drove a nail into a wire, etc) but it would be hard for wire damage to result in only a broken neutral. Find all the outlets that do work and start checking them starting with the closest one to the broken outlet.

              – JPhi1618
              3 hours ago











            • That's true; most likely OP can get away with only checking only two outlets IF they know what order the circuit is wired in. However, I still recommend opening them all up since most likely they were all wired at the same time with the same techniques, and if one failed, the others might not be far behind. And that way you don't need to know the circuit order, which most likely OP doesn't.

              – Nate Strickland
              2 hours ago













            7












            7








            7







            No, you cannot do this. Assuming the nearby outlet you want to borrow neutral from is on a different circuit, you will be overloading its neutral. Even if it is the same circuit, it's very bad practice to leave broken wiring energized without fixing it -- what if it moves a little and reconnects just enough to arc? Then your house is on fire.



            However, fixing this properly probably isn't as much work as you think. You most likely will not need to tear up your walls. Unless you recently drove a nail through a wire, the wire inside the walls usually doesn't just break. Rather, where things go wrong is at the outlets themselves. The so-called "backstab" outlets are especially prone to having the wires come lose over time. So the fix for this will involve pulling out each outlet in turn, making sure all screws, wirenuts, etc are tight, and ideally replacing any backstabs in the circuit. Most likely you'll find one of the outlets had the white wire come loose, and when you tighten it, everything starts working again.






            share|improve this answer













            No, you cannot do this. Assuming the nearby outlet you want to borrow neutral from is on a different circuit, you will be overloading its neutral. Even if it is the same circuit, it's very bad practice to leave broken wiring energized without fixing it -- what if it moves a little and reconnects just enough to arc? Then your house is on fire.



            However, fixing this properly probably isn't as much work as you think. You most likely will not need to tear up your walls. Unless you recently drove a nail through a wire, the wire inside the walls usually doesn't just break. Rather, where things go wrong is at the outlets themselves. The so-called "backstab" outlets are especially prone to having the wires come lose over time. So the fix for this will involve pulling out each outlet in turn, making sure all screws, wirenuts, etc are tight, and ideally replacing any backstabs in the circuit. Most likely you'll find one of the outlets had the white wire come loose, and when you tighten it, everything starts working again.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 4 hours ago









            Nate StricklandNate Strickland

            2767




            2767







            • 2





              The failure is usually at the last working outlet or the first non working outlet. In rare cases where nothing on the circuit works it can be in the panel.

              – Ed Beal
              3 hours ago











            • If a breaker was tripping you might think about damage to the wire between boxes more (drove a nail into a wire, etc) but it would be hard for wire damage to result in only a broken neutral. Find all the outlets that do work and start checking them starting with the closest one to the broken outlet.

              – JPhi1618
              3 hours ago











            • That's true; most likely OP can get away with only checking only two outlets IF they know what order the circuit is wired in. However, I still recommend opening them all up since most likely they were all wired at the same time with the same techniques, and if one failed, the others might not be far behind. And that way you don't need to know the circuit order, which most likely OP doesn't.

              – Nate Strickland
              2 hours ago












            • 2





              The failure is usually at the last working outlet or the first non working outlet. In rare cases where nothing on the circuit works it can be in the panel.

              – Ed Beal
              3 hours ago











            • If a breaker was tripping you might think about damage to the wire between boxes more (drove a nail into a wire, etc) but it would be hard for wire damage to result in only a broken neutral. Find all the outlets that do work and start checking them starting with the closest one to the broken outlet.

              – JPhi1618
              3 hours ago











            • That's true; most likely OP can get away with only checking only two outlets IF they know what order the circuit is wired in. However, I still recommend opening them all up since most likely they were all wired at the same time with the same techniques, and if one failed, the others might not be far behind. And that way you don't need to know the circuit order, which most likely OP doesn't.

              – Nate Strickland
              2 hours ago







            2




            2





            The failure is usually at the last working outlet or the first non working outlet. In rare cases where nothing on the circuit works it can be in the panel.

            – Ed Beal
            3 hours ago





            The failure is usually at the last working outlet or the first non working outlet. In rare cases where nothing on the circuit works it can be in the panel.

            – Ed Beal
            3 hours ago













            If a breaker was tripping you might think about damage to the wire between boxes more (drove a nail into a wire, etc) but it would be hard for wire damage to result in only a broken neutral. Find all the outlets that do work and start checking them starting with the closest one to the broken outlet.

            – JPhi1618
            3 hours ago





            If a breaker was tripping you might think about damage to the wire between boxes more (drove a nail into a wire, etc) but it would be hard for wire damage to result in only a broken neutral. Find all the outlets that do work and start checking them starting with the closest one to the broken outlet.

            – JPhi1618
            3 hours ago













            That's true; most likely OP can get away with only checking only two outlets IF they know what order the circuit is wired in. However, I still recommend opening them all up since most likely they were all wired at the same time with the same techniques, and if one failed, the others might not be far behind. And that way you don't need to know the circuit order, which most likely OP doesn't.

            – Nate Strickland
            2 hours ago





            That's true; most likely OP can get away with only checking only two outlets IF they know what order the circuit is wired in. However, I still recommend opening them all up since most likely they were all wired at the same time with the same techniques, and if one failed, the others might not be far behind. And that way you don't need to know the circuit order, which most likely OP doesn't.

            – Nate Strickland
            2 hours ago













            1














            Absolutely not. That sort of thinking works with safety ground, which does not ever carry current, except during a fault condition (and we hope there aren't 2 independent fault conditions occurring at once).



            However, current flows in loops. Neutral is the normal "return half" of the loop, and it needs to be dedicated to this circuit. In fact, neutrals don't have fuses and rely on the circuit breaker on the hot side to protect the neutral. You can't have two circuits sharing a neutral, or you get this!



            enter image description here




            But there's another problem. This is AC power. It reverses polarity 100/120 times a second, which throws electro-magnetic force into everything around the wires. That's why transformers work. To keep that from causing a lot of problems, we require that all the current that goes out one wire comes back on another in the same cable or conduit. Among the wires, currents are equal and opposite, so their electro-magnetic forces cancel each other out.



            Now, borrowing a neutral means current is now making a big loop - "out" (really, it's AC) this circuit's "hot" wire and returning via another circuit's "neutral" wire. That will throw EMF on both circuits, causing all sorts of mischief - eddy current heating, wire vibration leading to noise and metal fatigue leading to cracking and spot heating, etc. Nope.



            Because of this, all practical wiring is done on a physical "tree" topology -- a branch may "split", but it may never "loop back" onto itself or another branch (except in one particular way, and even then, only in the UK where this is officially sanctioned).




            Now, it can be hard to see when you're not practiced in a field. But this is most likely an easy problem. Wire breaks inside walls are rare. Wire problems are almost always at terminations of the cable run... And by definition, this must occur at either the last working outlet or the first failed outlet in the sequence.



            As Nate discusses in his answer, backstab connections are the usual culprit. You're best changing it to a screw connection, but current Code advises using an $80 torque screwdriver, because "too loose" is more of a problem than "too tight".



            If it's at the service panel, the neutral may go to a neutral bar, or a GFCI or AFCI breaker. Torque matters here too.



            Lastly, if this diagnosis is given you by a 3-light tester, know that some of us call it a "Magic 8-ball" tester. It is made as a pass-fail device for new wiring e.g. During new construction. When troubleshooting old existing work, the legends can be wrong to the point of whimsical. The lights are useful; they save you the trouble of making 3 measurements with a neon tester.






            share|improve this answer





























              1














              Absolutely not. That sort of thinking works with safety ground, which does not ever carry current, except during a fault condition (and we hope there aren't 2 independent fault conditions occurring at once).



              However, current flows in loops. Neutral is the normal "return half" of the loop, and it needs to be dedicated to this circuit. In fact, neutrals don't have fuses and rely on the circuit breaker on the hot side to protect the neutral. You can't have two circuits sharing a neutral, or you get this!



              enter image description here




              But there's another problem. This is AC power. It reverses polarity 100/120 times a second, which throws electro-magnetic force into everything around the wires. That's why transformers work. To keep that from causing a lot of problems, we require that all the current that goes out one wire comes back on another in the same cable or conduit. Among the wires, currents are equal and opposite, so their electro-magnetic forces cancel each other out.



              Now, borrowing a neutral means current is now making a big loop - "out" (really, it's AC) this circuit's "hot" wire and returning via another circuit's "neutral" wire. That will throw EMF on both circuits, causing all sorts of mischief - eddy current heating, wire vibration leading to noise and metal fatigue leading to cracking and spot heating, etc. Nope.



              Because of this, all practical wiring is done on a physical "tree" topology -- a branch may "split", but it may never "loop back" onto itself or another branch (except in one particular way, and even then, only in the UK where this is officially sanctioned).




              Now, it can be hard to see when you're not practiced in a field. But this is most likely an easy problem. Wire breaks inside walls are rare. Wire problems are almost always at terminations of the cable run... And by definition, this must occur at either the last working outlet or the first failed outlet in the sequence.



              As Nate discusses in his answer, backstab connections are the usual culprit. You're best changing it to a screw connection, but current Code advises using an $80 torque screwdriver, because "too loose" is more of a problem than "too tight".



              If it's at the service panel, the neutral may go to a neutral bar, or a GFCI or AFCI breaker. Torque matters here too.



              Lastly, if this diagnosis is given you by a 3-light tester, know that some of us call it a "Magic 8-ball" tester. It is made as a pass-fail device for new wiring e.g. During new construction. When troubleshooting old existing work, the legends can be wrong to the point of whimsical. The lights are useful; they save you the trouble of making 3 measurements with a neon tester.






              share|improve this answer



























                1












                1








                1







                Absolutely not. That sort of thinking works with safety ground, which does not ever carry current, except during a fault condition (and we hope there aren't 2 independent fault conditions occurring at once).



                However, current flows in loops. Neutral is the normal "return half" of the loop, and it needs to be dedicated to this circuit. In fact, neutrals don't have fuses and rely on the circuit breaker on the hot side to protect the neutral. You can't have two circuits sharing a neutral, or you get this!



                enter image description here




                But there's another problem. This is AC power. It reverses polarity 100/120 times a second, which throws electro-magnetic force into everything around the wires. That's why transformers work. To keep that from causing a lot of problems, we require that all the current that goes out one wire comes back on another in the same cable or conduit. Among the wires, currents are equal and opposite, so their electro-magnetic forces cancel each other out.



                Now, borrowing a neutral means current is now making a big loop - "out" (really, it's AC) this circuit's "hot" wire and returning via another circuit's "neutral" wire. That will throw EMF on both circuits, causing all sorts of mischief - eddy current heating, wire vibration leading to noise and metal fatigue leading to cracking and spot heating, etc. Nope.



                Because of this, all practical wiring is done on a physical "tree" topology -- a branch may "split", but it may never "loop back" onto itself or another branch (except in one particular way, and even then, only in the UK where this is officially sanctioned).




                Now, it can be hard to see when you're not practiced in a field. But this is most likely an easy problem. Wire breaks inside walls are rare. Wire problems are almost always at terminations of the cable run... And by definition, this must occur at either the last working outlet or the first failed outlet in the sequence.



                As Nate discusses in his answer, backstab connections are the usual culprit. You're best changing it to a screw connection, but current Code advises using an $80 torque screwdriver, because "too loose" is more of a problem than "too tight".



                If it's at the service panel, the neutral may go to a neutral bar, or a GFCI or AFCI breaker. Torque matters here too.



                Lastly, if this diagnosis is given you by a 3-light tester, know that some of us call it a "Magic 8-ball" tester. It is made as a pass-fail device for new wiring e.g. During new construction. When troubleshooting old existing work, the legends can be wrong to the point of whimsical. The lights are useful; they save you the trouble of making 3 measurements with a neon tester.






                share|improve this answer















                Absolutely not. That sort of thinking works with safety ground, which does not ever carry current, except during a fault condition (and we hope there aren't 2 independent fault conditions occurring at once).



                However, current flows in loops. Neutral is the normal "return half" of the loop, and it needs to be dedicated to this circuit. In fact, neutrals don't have fuses and rely on the circuit breaker on the hot side to protect the neutral. You can't have two circuits sharing a neutral, or you get this!



                enter image description here




                But there's another problem. This is AC power. It reverses polarity 100/120 times a second, which throws electro-magnetic force into everything around the wires. That's why transformers work. To keep that from causing a lot of problems, we require that all the current that goes out one wire comes back on another in the same cable or conduit. Among the wires, currents are equal and opposite, so their electro-magnetic forces cancel each other out.



                Now, borrowing a neutral means current is now making a big loop - "out" (really, it's AC) this circuit's "hot" wire and returning via another circuit's "neutral" wire. That will throw EMF on both circuits, causing all sorts of mischief - eddy current heating, wire vibration leading to noise and metal fatigue leading to cracking and spot heating, etc. Nope.



                Because of this, all practical wiring is done on a physical "tree" topology -- a branch may "split", but it may never "loop back" onto itself or another branch (except in one particular way, and even then, only in the UK where this is officially sanctioned).




                Now, it can be hard to see when you're not practiced in a field. But this is most likely an easy problem. Wire breaks inside walls are rare. Wire problems are almost always at terminations of the cable run... And by definition, this must occur at either the last working outlet or the first failed outlet in the sequence.



                As Nate discusses in his answer, backstab connections are the usual culprit. You're best changing it to a screw connection, but current Code advises using an $80 torque screwdriver, because "too loose" is more of a problem than "too tight".



                If it's at the service panel, the neutral may go to a neutral bar, or a GFCI or AFCI breaker. Torque matters here too.



                Lastly, if this diagnosis is given you by a 3-light tester, know that some of us call it a "Magic 8-ball" tester. It is made as a pass-fail device for new wiring e.g. During new construction. When troubleshooting old existing work, the legends can be wrong to the point of whimsical. The lights are useful; they save you the trouble of making 3 measurements with a neon tester.







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