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Do scales need to be in alphabetical order?


What's so special about minor and major scales?When learning scales, is it important to know which key is being pressed when?What are the official modes from Ionian to Locrian?Diatonic Scales and Modes. How do I reconcile information about Modes?So… 84 modal scales vs actual practice and usagePracticing piano scalesmemorizing scales in playing guitar?Why are scales built sequentially, rather than around the circle of fifths?How to remember and see each major scale degrees when playing a scale not in order?Are Secondary Dominants related to Chord-Scales?













3















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question
























  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    47 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    13 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    10 mins ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    9 mins ago











  • You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 mins ago















3















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question
























  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    47 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    13 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    10 mins ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    9 mins ago











  • You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 mins ago













3












3








3








If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.










share|improve this question
















If we take out the sharps and flats, I'm wondering if all scales need to be in alphabetical order in terms of their letters: A,B,C,D,E,F,G where 'A' comes after 'G'.

also..

no repeating notes: A,A#,B,C,D,E, etc.

no skipping notes: A,C,D,E,etc.

no combining flats and sharps: A,B♭,C#,etc.

Therefore the scales are always in alphabetical order and each note is different. (?)



So the scale of C minor:

C, D, E♭, F, G, A♭, B♭

The scale of F# major:

F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#



So if we don't look at the flats then the scales satisfy the above conditions. Is this true for all scales/modes in music? I'm guessing this is some kind of agreed upon convention to make things easier to memorize because it's just alphabetical order at that point. So the only thing we have to memorize is how many sharps or flats are in each scale.







theory scales






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 11 mins ago







foreyez

















asked 2 hours ago









foreyezforeyez

5,29532586




5,29532586












  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    47 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    13 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    10 mins ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    9 mins ago











  • You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 mins ago

















  • Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

    – Michael Curtis
    47 mins ago











  • @MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

    – foreyez
    13 mins ago











  • I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

    – Tim
    10 mins ago











  • @Tim what's the issue I can edit it

    – foreyez
    9 mins ago











  • You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

    – Tim
    3 mins ago
















Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

– Michael Curtis
47 mins ago





Is your question about distinguishing 'scale' from 'mode' or 'key'? Scale like tonleiter (which I understand means 'sound ladder' in German) so a step-wise line versus mode/key an unordered set of pitches?

– Michael Curtis
47 mins ago













@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

– foreyez
13 mins ago





@MichaelCurtis I thought a mode is a scale. and not talking about key since it's unordered.

– foreyez
13 mins ago













I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

– Tim
10 mins ago





I vtc as the question is based on a false premise, the way it's worded at the moment.

– Tim
10 mins ago













@Tim what's the issue I can edit it

– foreyez
9 mins ago





@Tim what's the issue I can edit it

– foreyez
9 mins ago













You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

– Tim
3 mins ago





You state that every scale has consecutive letter names. That's not a fact.No repeating notes. Sometimes necessary. No mixed #/b. Look at harmonic minors. There are so many premises the question is based on that don't ring true, that I had to vtc. My answer covers some points.

– Tim
3 mins ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2














This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






share|improve this answer























  • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

    – Basstickler
    1 hour ago


















2














Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






share|improve this answer






























    1














    As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



    But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






    share|improve this answer























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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2














      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






      share|improve this answer























      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago















      2














      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






      share|improve this answer























      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago













      2












      2








      2







      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.






      share|improve this answer













      This is not always the case but would be the case for the most commonly used scales, such as major, minor, and all the standard modes. However, we can quickly find common examples of scales that skip notes, such as a pentatonic scale, where there are only 5 notes, so it wouldn't be possible to use all 7 unique letter names. The whole tone scale only has six notes, so that will also be missing a note. There are also octatonic scales, which have 8 notes, and therefore require repeating a letter name. These octatonic scales also require the use of both sharps and flats a lot times. Then we have the case of the Harmonic and Melodic Minor scales, where you can end up with mixed sharps and flats. We could also consider the chromatic scale but that tends not to be considered in these types of conversations.



      So generally speaking, if you are learning or teaching scales, it's good to start with the major and minor scale and introduce their modes. These will all follow the rules you suggested. Eventually, you learn/teach that this is not entirely the case and learn the exceptions. Music theory is very much like this, where you learn a general concept, sometimes thinking of it as a rule, then you learn how that concept or rule is not always accurate or applicable.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 1 hour ago









      BassticklerBasstickler

      6,2691036




      6,2691036












      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago

















      • Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

        – Basstickler
        1 hour ago
















      Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

      – Basstickler
      1 hour ago





      Also, you don't necessarily have to list the notes in alphabetical order, it just makes it a whole lot easier to conceptualize.

      – Basstickler
      1 hour ago











      2














      Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



      For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






      share|improve this answer



























        2














        Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



        For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






        share|improve this answer

























          2












          2








          2







          Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



          For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.






          share|improve this answer













          Yes, in traditional Western music theory, but there are a lot of scales/modes outside of traditional Western theory that don't follow this conventions.



          For instance, the pentatonic, diminished, and whole-tone scales skip certain letters or have multiple notes on some letters.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          PeterPeter

          2,855521




          2,855521





















              1














              As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



              But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






              share|improve this answer



























                1














                As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






                share|improve this answer

























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                  But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.






                  share|improve this answer













                  As said many times, a scale is simply a set of notes played in order. Obviously with majors and minors, the plan works. But what about others? pentatonics won't fit that criterion, and certainly chromatic scales just can't.



                  But if possible, then yes. If only to make writing them out make more sense and be simpler. But something like a blues scale will have to have one repeated letter name. And diminished will be blighted in the same manner.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 12 mins ago









                  TimTim

                  104k10107262




                  104k10107262



























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