Is it possible to cast 2x Final Payment while sacrificing just one creature? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?In multiplayer, what happens if a player you're attacking dies before combat damage is dealt?What happens when additional costs can't ultimately be paid, but the spell is on the stack?Triggering “On Cast” Effects When SacrificingSacrificing an attacking creature that should dieTeysa, Orzhov Scion sacrificing one creature multiple times to exhileThorncaster Sliver and Venom Sliver vs. Priority or Lack ThereofSacrificing a creature with 0 toughnessHow does Camouflage interact with “can't be blocked by more than one creature”?Sacrificing a creature - Magic the gatheringSacrificing an opponent's creature

Is it possible to cast 2x Final Payment while sacrificing just one creature?

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Is it possible to cast 2x Final Payment while sacrificing just one creature?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?In multiplayer, what happens if a player you're attacking dies before combat damage is dealt?What happens when additional costs can't ultimately be paid, but the spell is on the stack?Triggering “On Cast” Effects When SacrificingSacrificing an attacking creature that should dieTeysa, Orzhov Scion sacrificing one creature multiple times to exhileThorncaster Sliver and Venom Sliver vs. Priority or Lack ThereofSacrificing a creature with 0 toughnessHow does Camouflage interact with “can't be blocked by more than one creature”?Sacrificing a creature - Magic the gatheringSacrificing an opponent's creature










5















Situation:



  1. Player A controls 2 creatures.

  2. Player B controls 1 creature.

  3. Player B plays 1x Final Payment and declares his creature as additional cost.

  4. Before resolving the spell, Player B plays another Final Payment, once again declaring his creature as additional cost.

What happens here?



  • Option 1: Only the second Final Payment is executed since the additional costs for the previously casted spell aren't paid.

  • Option 2: Both creatures of Player A are destroyed while Player B only sacrificed one creature.

I suppose it's option 1 but we had a draft the other day where my opponent claimed that option 2 would be correct.










share|improve this question









New contributor




bautista is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    5















    Situation:



    1. Player A controls 2 creatures.

    2. Player B controls 1 creature.

    3. Player B plays 1x Final Payment and declares his creature as additional cost.

    4. Before resolving the spell, Player B plays another Final Payment, once again declaring his creature as additional cost.

    What happens here?



    • Option 1: Only the second Final Payment is executed since the additional costs for the previously casted spell aren't paid.

    • Option 2: Both creatures of Player A are destroyed while Player B only sacrificed one creature.

    I suppose it's option 1 but we had a draft the other day where my opponent claimed that option 2 would be correct.










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    bautista is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      5












      5








      5








      Situation:



      1. Player A controls 2 creatures.

      2. Player B controls 1 creature.

      3. Player B plays 1x Final Payment and declares his creature as additional cost.

      4. Before resolving the spell, Player B plays another Final Payment, once again declaring his creature as additional cost.

      What happens here?



      • Option 1: Only the second Final Payment is executed since the additional costs for the previously casted spell aren't paid.

      • Option 2: Both creatures of Player A are destroyed while Player B only sacrificed one creature.

      I suppose it's option 1 but we had a draft the other day where my opponent claimed that option 2 would be correct.










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      bautista is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      Situation:



      1. Player A controls 2 creatures.

      2. Player B controls 1 creature.

      3. Player B plays 1x Final Payment and declares his creature as additional cost.

      4. Before resolving the spell, Player B plays another Final Payment, once again declaring his creature as additional cost.

      What happens here?



      • Option 1: Only the second Final Payment is executed since the additional costs for the previously casted spell aren't paid.

      • Option 2: Both creatures of Player A are destroyed while Player B only sacrificed one creature.

      I suppose it's option 1 but we had a draft the other day where my opponent claimed that option 2 would be correct.







      magic-the-gathering






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      bautista is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      bautista is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 5 hours ago







      bautista













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      asked 6 hours ago









      bautistabautista

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      284




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      New contributor





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      Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          2 Answers
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          active

          oldest

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          6














          Step 4. is not possible; sacrificing the creature is part of the cost of the spell, so it is done while the spell is cast, not when it resolves. Player B just cannot play the second Final Payment and the card stays in his/her hand; only the first Final Payment is executed.




          117.8. Some spells and abilities have additional costs. An additional cost is a cost listed in a spell's rules text, or applied to a spell or ability from another effect, that its controller must pay at the same time they pay the spell's mana cost or the ability's activation cost. Note that some additional costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.







          601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").







          share|improve this answer























          • thanks for the fast and profound answer. Just to clarify: Would player A be able to destroy the creature of player B with, let's say Cast Down in response to Final Payment, making it have no legal target? I guess not since you have to pay the additional costs at the time of casting final payment, or am I wrong here?

            – bautista
            6 hours ago






          • 1





            As soon as Player B has priority, they can announce Final Payment, and it's too late to cast Cast Down.

            – Glorfindel
            6 hours ago


















          1















          601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will
          eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes
          proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment
          of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps
          listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the
          spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during
          the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the
          steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game
          returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed
          (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").




          As per the rules, do you ever cast a spell and wait for it to resolve before you tap your mana? or does the spell only go on the stack when you pay for the mana?



          The rules clearly say that you need to meet all of the casting costs, so if you want to cast Final Payment you need to have all of the costs to cast it, this means, if your life is at 4 an you control no creatures you are unable to cast it, even if your opponent was to take over your turn (by the means of cards like emrakul, the promised end or such) and tried to cast Final Payment to for you to lose the game, they would be unable to unless your life was at 5 or you controlled a creature.



          There is no time between announcing that you want to cast a spell and paying for the spell costs.*



          This is also the reason why if you cast Final Payment and while it is on the stack you cast the expansion side of Expansion // Explosion you would copy Final Payment without having to pay the additional cost, this is because the card is already on the stack and all casting costs have been met, and copying it is the same as copying any other such spells.



          This is the same for any other copy effects.



          *There is a window of time there, to activate mana abilities, this is what allows you to use Llanowar elves ability without having to do it before announcing that you want to cast the spell and to tap lands. This is usually disregarded as nothing can be done in this time, but there was a deck that abused this fact in modern not to long ago so I thought I'd mention it.






          share|improve this answer























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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
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            active

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            6














            Step 4. is not possible; sacrificing the creature is part of the cost of the spell, so it is done while the spell is cast, not when it resolves. Player B just cannot play the second Final Payment and the card stays in his/her hand; only the first Final Payment is executed.




            117.8. Some spells and abilities have additional costs. An additional cost is a cost listed in a spell's rules text, or applied to a spell or ability from another effect, that its controller must pay at the same time they pay the spell's mana cost or the ability's activation cost. Note that some additional costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.







            601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").







            share|improve this answer























            • thanks for the fast and profound answer. Just to clarify: Would player A be able to destroy the creature of player B with, let's say Cast Down in response to Final Payment, making it have no legal target? I guess not since you have to pay the additional costs at the time of casting final payment, or am I wrong here?

              – bautista
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              As soon as Player B has priority, they can announce Final Payment, and it's too late to cast Cast Down.

              – Glorfindel
              6 hours ago















            6














            Step 4. is not possible; sacrificing the creature is part of the cost of the spell, so it is done while the spell is cast, not when it resolves. Player B just cannot play the second Final Payment and the card stays in his/her hand; only the first Final Payment is executed.




            117.8. Some spells and abilities have additional costs. An additional cost is a cost listed in a spell's rules text, or applied to a spell or ability from another effect, that its controller must pay at the same time they pay the spell's mana cost or the ability's activation cost. Note that some additional costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.







            601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").







            share|improve this answer























            • thanks for the fast and profound answer. Just to clarify: Would player A be able to destroy the creature of player B with, let's say Cast Down in response to Final Payment, making it have no legal target? I guess not since you have to pay the additional costs at the time of casting final payment, or am I wrong here?

              – bautista
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              As soon as Player B has priority, they can announce Final Payment, and it's too late to cast Cast Down.

              – Glorfindel
              6 hours ago













            6












            6








            6







            Step 4. is not possible; sacrificing the creature is part of the cost of the spell, so it is done while the spell is cast, not when it resolves. Player B just cannot play the second Final Payment and the card stays in his/her hand; only the first Final Payment is executed.




            117.8. Some spells and abilities have additional costs. An additional cost is a cost listed in a spell's rules text, or applied to a spell or ability from another effect, that its controller must pay at the same time they pay the spell's mana cost or the ability's activation cost. Note that some additional costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.







            601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").







            share|improve this answer













            Step 4. is not possible; sacrificing the creature is part of the cost of the spell, so it is done while the spell is cast, not when it resolves. Player B just cannot play the second Final Payment and the card stays in his/her hand; only the first Final Payment is executed.




            117.8. Some spells and abilities have additional costs. An additional cost is a cost listed in a spell's rules text, or applied to a spell or ability from another effect, that its controller must pay at the same time they pay the spell's mana cost or the ability's activation cost. Note that some additional costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.







            601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").








            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 6 hours ago









            GlorfindelGlorfindel

            6,61612046




            6,61612046












            • thanks for the fast and profound answer. Just to clarify: Would player A be able to destroy the creature of player B with, let's say Cast Down in response to Final Payment, making it have no legal target? I guess not since you have to pay the additional costs at the time of casting final payment, or am I wrong here?

              – bautista
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              As soon as Player B has priority, they can announce Final Payment, and it's too late to cast Cast Down.

              – Glorfindel
              6 hours ago

















            • thanks for the fast and profound answer. Just to clarify: Would player A be able to destroy the creature of player B with, let's say Cast Down in response to Final Payment, making it have no legal target? I guess not since you have to pay the additional costs at the time of casting final payment, or am I wrong here?

              – bautista
              6 hours ago






            • 1





              As soon as Player B has priority, they can announce Final Payment, and it's too late to cast Cast Down.

              – Glorfindel
              6 hours ago
















            thanks for the fast and profound answer. Just to clarify: Would player A be able to destroy the creature of player B with, let's say Cast Down in response to Final Payment, making it have no legal target? I guess not since you have to pay the additional costs at the time of casting final payment, or am I wrong here?

            – bautista
            6 hours ago





            thanks for the fast and profound answer. Just to clarify: Would player A be able to destroy the creature of player B with, let's say Cast Down in response to Final Payment, making it have no legal target? I guess not since you have to pay the additional costs at the time of casting final payment, or am I wrong here?

            – bautista
            6 hours ago




            1




            1





            As soon as Player B has priority, they can announce Final Payment, and it's too late to cast Cast Down.

            – Glorfindel
            6 hours ago





            As soon as Player B has priority, they can announce Final Payment, and it's too late to cast Cast Down.

            – Glorfindel
            6 hours ago











            1















            601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will
            eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes
            proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment
            of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps
            listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the
            spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during
            the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the
            steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game
            returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed
            (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").




            As per the rules, do you ever cast a spell and wait for it to resolve before you tap your mana? or does the spell only go on the stack when you pay for the mana?



            The rules clearly say that you need to meet all of the casting costs, so if you want to cast Final Payment you need to have all of the costs to cast it, this means, if your life is at 4 an you control no creatures you are unable to cast it, even if your opponent was to take over your turn (by the means of cards like emrakul, the promised end or such) and tried to cast Final Payment to for you to lose the game, they would be unable to unless your life was at 5 or you controlled a creature.



            There is no time between announcing that you want to cast a spell and paying for the spell costs.*



            This is also the reason why if you cast Final Payment and while it is on the stack you cast the expansion side of Expansion // Explosion you would copy Final Payment without having to pay the additional cost, this is because the card is already on the stack and all casting costs have been met, and copying it is the same as copying any other such spells.



            This is the same for any other copy effects.



            *There is a window of time there, to activate mana abilities, this is what allows you to use Llanowar elves ability without having to do it before announcing that you want to cast the spell and to tap lands. This is usually disregarded as nothing can be done in this time, but there was a deck that abused this fact in modern not to long ago so I thought I'd mention it.






            share|improve this answer



























              1















              601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will
              eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes
              proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment
              of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps
              listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the
              spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during
              the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the
              steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game
              returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed
              (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").




              As per the rules, do you ever cast a spell and wait for it to resolve before you tap your mana? or does the spell only go on the stack when you pay for the mana?



              The rules clearly say that you need to meet all of the casting costs, so if you want to cast Final Payment you need to have all of the costs to cast it, this means, if your life is at 4 an you control no creatures you are unable to cast it, even if your opponent was to take over your turn (by the means of cards like emrakul, the promised end or such) and tried to cast Final Payment to for you to lose the game, they would be unable to unless your life was at 5 or you controlled a creature.



              There is no time between announcing that you want to cast a spell and paying for the spell costs.*



              This is also the reason why if you cast Final Payment and while it is on the stack you cast the expansion side of Expansion // Explosion you would copy Final Payment without having to pay the additional cost, this is because the card is already on the stack and all casting costs have been met, and copying it is the same as copying any other such spells.



              This is the same for any other copy effects.



              *There is a window of time there, to activate mana abilities, this is what allows you to use Llanowar elves ability without having to do it before announcing that you want to cast the spell and to tap lands. This is usually disregarded as nothing can be done in this time, but there was a deck that abused this fact in modern not to long ago so I thought I'd mention it.






              share|improve this answer

























                1












                1








                1








                601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will
                eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes
                proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment
                of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps
                listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the
                spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during
                the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the
                steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game
                returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed
                (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").




                As per the rules, do you ever cast a spell and wait for it to resolve before you tap your mana? or does the spell only go on the stack when you pay for the mana?



                The rules clearly say that you need to meet all of the casting costs, so if you want to cast Final Payment you need to have all of the costs to cast it, this means, if your life is at 4 an you control no creatures you are unable to cast it, even if your opponent was to take over your turn (by the means of cards like emrakul, the promised end or such) and tried to cast Final Payment to for you to lose the game, they would be unable to unless your life was at 5 or you controlled a creature.



                There is no time between announcing that you want to cast a spell and paying for the spell costs.*



                This is also the reason why if you cast Final Payment and while it is on the stack you cast the expansion side of Expansion // Explosion you would copy Final Payment without having to pay the additional cost, this is because the card is already on the stack and all casting costs have been met, and copying it is the same as copying any other such spells.



                This is the same for any other copy effects.



                *There is a window of time there, to activate mana abilities, this is what allows you to use Llanowar elves ability without having to do it before announcing that you want to cast the spell and to tap lands. This is usually disregarded as nothing can be done in this time, but there was a deck that abused this fact in modern not to long ago so I thought I'd mention it.






                share|improve this answer














                601.2. To cast a spell is to take it from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will
                eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell includes
                proposal of the spell (rules 601.2a-d) and determination and payment
                of costs (rules 601.2f-h). To cast a spell, a player follows the steps
                listed below, in order. A player must be legally allowed to cast the
                spell to begin this process (see rule 601.3). If, at any point during
                the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the
                steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game
                returns to the moment before the casting of that spell was proposed
                (see rule 721, "Handling Illegal Actions").




                As per the rules, do you ever cast a spell and wait for it to resolve before you tap your mana? or does the spell only go on the stack when you pay for the mana?



                The rules clearly say that you need to meet all of the casting costs, so if you want to cast Final Payment you need to have all of the costs to cast it, this means, if your life is at 4 an you control no creatures you are unable to cast it, even if your opponent was to take over your turn (by the means of cards like emrakul, the promised end or such) and tried to cast Final Payment to for you to lose the game, they would be unable to unless your life was at 5 or you controlled a creature.



                There is no time between announcing that you want to cast a spell and paying for the spell costs.*



                This is also the reason why if you cast Final Payment and while it is on the stack you cast the expansion side of Expansion // Explosion you would copy Final Payment without having to pay the additional cost, this is because the card is already on the stack and all casting costs have been met, and copying it is the same as copying any other such spells.



                This is the same for any other copy effects.



                *There is a window of time there, to activate mana abilities, this is what allows you to use Llanowar elves ability without having to do it before announcing that you want to cast the spell and to tap lands. This is usually disregarded as nothing can be done in this time, but there was a deck that abused this fact in modern not to long ago so I thought I'd mention it.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



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                answered 1 hour ago









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