How would a solely written language work mechanicallyFor designing a vocal language for an intelligent species, how to decide on phonemes?Is it plausible to have two written forms of one spoken language that are so different as to be indecipherable?Is a galaxy-wide language possible?How could scents develop into a full language?How expressive is a color-based language?How does one approach phonology notation for a non-human constructed language?Primitive ant-like species and written languageTelepathic species and written languageGetting Past Phonetic LimitationsWhy would a telepathic species use spoken language?
What 1968 Moog synthesizer was used in the Movie Apollo 11?
Box half filled color
A seasonal riddle
Is Crypto.generateMac method work exactly the same as Mac and SecretKeySpec java classes
Do people actually use the word "kaputt" in conversation?
What is the tangent at a sharp point on a curve?
Get top 1 row value from third table while joining 3 tables mssql
What's the meaning of "what it means for something to be something"?
How to robustly store bits of text for later use
Air travel with refrigerated insulin
What is the period/term used describe Giuseppe Arcimboldo's style of painting?
Capacitor electron flow
Offset in split text content
Exposing a company lying about themselves in a tightly knit industry (videogames) : Is my career at risk on the long run?
How do you say "Trust your struggle." in French?
Do native speakers use "ultima" and "proxima" frequently in spoken English?
Weird lines in Microsoft Word
Not hide and seek
How can a new country break out from a developed country without war?
What is the meaning of "You've never met a graph you didn't like?"
Highest stage count that are used one right after the other?
Why is "la Gestapo" feminine?
PTIJ: Which Dr. Seuss books should one obtain?
How would a solely written language work mechanically
How would a solely written language work mechanically
For designing a vocal language for an intelligent species, how to decide on phonemes?Is it plausible to have two written forms of one spoken language that are so different as to be indecipherable?Is a galaxy-wide language possible?How could scents develop into a full language?How expressive is a color-based language?How does one approach phonology notation for a non-human constructed language?Primitive ant-like species and written languageTelepathic species and written languageGetting Past Phonetic LimitationsWhy would a telepathic species use spoken language?
$begingroup$
I am trying to make a language for a fictional world and I am wondering how a species without vocal chords could communicate via written language
language
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I am trying to make a language for a fictional world and I am wondering how a species without vocal chords could communicate via written language
language
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
An interesting problem is that they could not have the concept of phonemes. I would think this would make it likely that they end up with a language with a symbol for each word, since the semantics are the fundamental structure now.
$endgroup$
– Ryan_L
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Think "sign language".
$endgroup$
– StephenG
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you think there is any necessary connection between spoken and written language?
$endgroup$
– Jeff Zeitlin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Birds do not have vocal chords and yet they can make all the sounds humans can make, and many other sounds on top. Moreover, there is a great real-world example of a script (almost) completely divorced from the phonetic realization of the language: Chinese characters; they form the basis of a famous thought experiment, the Chinese room, which is often used to exemplify the difference (or lack thereof) between symbol manipulation and comprehension.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP Likewise, insects are capable of a dizzying array of sounds and don't even pass air through their sound-making apparatus. Still, the question is still useful: 'How would a written language develop in a species that cannot communicate using sound?'.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I am trying to make a language for a fictional world and I am wondering how a species without vocal chords could communicate via written language
language
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
I am trying to make a language for a fictional world and I am wondering how a species without vocal chords could communicate via written language
language
language
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 3 hours ago
SageSage
111
111
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Sage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$begingroup$
An interesting problem is that they could not have the concept of phonemes. I would think this would make it likely that they end up with a language with a symbol for each word, since the semantics are the fundamental structure now.
$endgroup$
– Ryan_L
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Think "sign language".
$endgroup$
– StephenG
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you think there is any necessary connection between spoken and written language?
$endgroup$
– Jeff Zeitlin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Birds do not have vocal chords and yet they can make all the sounds humans can make, and many other sounds on top. Moreover, there is a great real-world example of a script (almost) completely divorced from the phonetic realization of the language: Chinese characters; they form the basis of a famous thought experiment, the Chinese room, which is often used to exemplify the difference (or lack thereof) between symbol manipulation and comprehension.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP Likewise, insects are capable of a dizzying array of sounds and don't even pass air through their sound-making apparatus. Still, the question is still useful: 'How would a written language develop in a species that cannot communicate using sound?'.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
An interesting problem is that they could not have the concept of phonemes. I would think this would make it likely that they end up with a language with a symbol for each word, since the semantics are the fundamental structure now.
$endgroup$
– Ryan_L
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Think "sign language".
$endgroup$
– StephenG
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you think there is any necessary connection between spoken and written language?
$endgroup$
– Jeff Zeitlin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Birds do not have vocal chords and yet they can make all the sounds humans can make, and many other sounds on top. Moreover, there is a great real-world example of a script (almost) completely divorced from the phonetic realization of the language: Chinese characters; they form the basis of a famous thought experiment, the Chinese room, which is often used to exemplify the difference (or lack thereof) between symbol manipulation and comprehension.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP Likewise, insects are capable of a dizzying array of sounds and don't even pass air through their sound-making apparatus. Still, the question is still useful: 'How would a written language develop in a species that cannot communicate using sound?'.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
An interesting problem is that they could not have the concept of phonemes. I would think this would make it likely that they end up with a language with a symbol for each word, since the semantics are the fundamental structure now.
$endgroup$
– Ryan_L
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
An interesting problem is that they could not have the concept of phonemes. I would think this would make it likely that they end up with a language with a symbol for each word, since the semantics are the fundamental structure now.
$endgroup$
– Ryan_L
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Think "sign language".
$endgroup$
– StephenG
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Think "sign language".
$endgroup$
– StephenG
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you think there is any necessary connection between spoken and written language?
$endgroup$
– Jeff Zeitlin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you think there is any necessary connection between spoken and written language?
$endgroup$
– Jeff Zeitlin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Birds do not have vocal chords and yet they can make all the sounds humans can make, and many other sounds on top. Moreover, there is a great real-world example of a script (almost) completely divorced from the phonetic realization of the language: Chinese characters; they form the basis of a famous thought experiment, the Chinese room, which is often used to exemplify the difference (or lack thereof) between symbol manipulation and comprehension.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Birds do not have vocal chords and yet they can make all the sounds humans can make, and many other sounds on top. Moreover, there is a great real-world example of a script (almost) completely divorced from the phonetic realization of the language: Chinese characters; they form the basis of a famous thought experiment, the Chinese room, which is often used to exemplify the difference (or lack thereof) between symbol manipulation and comprehension.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP Likewise, insects are capable of a dizzying array of sounds and don't even pass air through their sound-making apparatus. Still, the question is still useful: 'How would a written language develop in a species that cannot communicate using sound?'.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP Likewise, insects are capable of a dizzying array of sounds and don't even pass air through their sound-making apparatus. Still, the question is still useful: 'How would a written language develop in a species that cannot communicate using sound?'.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Chalk and slate, charcoal and wood, or clay or wax tablets. (At least to start.) They would have started by scratching characters into the dirt and painting on cave walls, but technological necessity would develop portable tools.
That said, there's a more portable mechanism yet that would likely evolve in parallel - sign language. If the creatures are unable to make any sounds, that doesn't necessitate a written language.
(It goes without saying that advances in writing technology would be adopted as it was developed.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent idea, and with some expansion could be a perfect answer. So, if a species develops sign language first...what might its written language look like? I'd imagine it would start as a pictographic representation of whatever appendages they use for signing.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith In many sign-languages, the movement of the appendage is just as important as the shape and final positions. That can be rather hard to represent in static images. Certainly for Nouns, an image of the object in question is a more probable starting point.
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith You May be interested in this. I remember the Conservative party was picked up on being the only major party in the last UK general election not to provide a BSL translation of their (written) manifesto, a concept that confused me so much I spent a day or two researching written sign languages.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Chronocidal Very good point. I expect you would need either a representation of movement, or a symbolic representation of the whole appendage movement that's divorced from the actual movement itself. I'd expect that would be a later development.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Yeah BSL differs quite a lot from English, especially in grammar. Certainly enough to require translations between the two!
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It may be 2-dimensional as well as 1-dimensional
Speech, sign languages and such transmit a single sign at a time, thus forcing the writing, which is secondary, to also form a sequence of signs that can be read one at a time.
A language made by different species that originates in a written form directly doesn't have to follow this restriction. It's likely to develop from the sights of the body language, and there several signs can be formed simultaneously by different body parts, each being as complex as human facial expressions.
If your species have brains adapted to read such complex poses, their writings will first capture the poses in something like parietal art. And it will get more abstract from that, to the level of modern ideographs or more. But no need may ever arise to linearize it.
So the words or sentences in the language may be based on a graph grammar instead of our conventional string grammars. Graph grammars are usually more powerful at the same level of rule types, a context-free one able to form sentences that only a context-dependent can make in pure one-dimensional text. So a writing that has never passed through speech form has a potential to be something drastically different from human speech and lead to a completely alien way of thinking.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A language could be developed in any manner that conveys information. Sound can be carried in other ways than using vocal cords. Clapping, snapping fingers, clicking claws, sign language. It might even develop from facial expressions.
A written language might be assumed to start from pictures such as hieroglyphics, but it could also be symbol based. For instance, if the language started from sign language, the written language may mimic the shapes of the sign language. If the language were based on the tapping of sticks together, the written language may somehow show the beat (like music for drums).
How the language is conveyed may bias the society toward being more mathematical (from rhythms) or being emotional tuned to each other if based on facial expressions.
While it doesn't have to, I see no reason to think that the technology couldn't follow the same path as our technology, assuming they have hands or something similar once a language is invented to manipulate tools the same way.
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My understanding is that pictographs like hieroglyphics are developed before an alphabet takes form. Once the alphabet forms, your fictional species could use bioluminescence to communicate in a style similar to morse code. A certain sequence of blinks would represent a written letter. Certain colors could also express different emotions.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Writing developed from pictures to pictograms to ideograms. In a species with spoken language it can then move to phonetic scripts such as syllabaries and alphabets. But in a species that does not speak the next step would reasonably a featural script describing whatever method they used to communicate without writing.
What form that takes is really up to you. For sign language it would be stylized representations of the gestures. For color based communication, it would be just the colors. Or bunch of lines of different lengths corresponding to different possible colors. Which would also work for scent or radio based communication.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "579"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sage is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f141838%2fhow-would-a-solely-written-language-work-mechanically%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Chalk and slate, charcoal and wood, or clay or wax tablets. (At least to start.) They would have started by scratching characters into the dirt and painting on cave walls, but technological necessity would develop portable tools.
That said, there's a more portable mechanism yet that would likely evolve in parallel - sign language. If the creatures are unable to make any sounds, that doesn't necessitate a written language.
(It goes without saying that advances in writing technology would be adopted as it was developed.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent idea, and with some expansion could be a perfect answer. So, if a species develops sign language first...what might its written language look like? I'd imagine it would start as a pictographic representation of whatever appendages they use for signing.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith In many sign-languages, the movement of the appendage is just as important as the shape and final positions. That can be rather hard to represent in static images. Certainly for Nouns, an image of the object in question is a more probable starting point.
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith You May be interested in this. I remember the Conservative party was picked up on being the only major party in the last UK general election not to provide a BSL translation of their (written) manifesto, a concept that confused me so much I spent a day or two researching written sign languages.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Chronocidal Very good point. I expect you would need either a representation of movement, or a symbolic representation of the whole appendage movement that's divorced from the actual movement itself. I'd expect that would be a later development.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Yeah BSL differs quite a lot from English, especially in grammar. Certainly enough to require translations between the two!
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Chalk and slate, charcoal and wood, or clay or wax tablets. (At least to start.) They would have started by scratching characters into the dirt and painting on cave walls, but technological necessity would develop portable tools.
That said, there's a more portable mechanism yet that would likely evolve in parallel - sign language. If the creatures are unable to make any sounds, that doesn't necessitate a written language.
(It goes without saying that advances in writing technology would be adopted as it was developed.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Excellent idea, and with some expansion could be a perfect answer. So, if a species develops sign language first...what might its written language look like? I'd imagine it would start as a pictographic representation of whatever appendages they use for signing.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith In many sign-languages, the movement of the appendage is just as important as the shape and final positions. That can be rather hard to represent in static images. Certainly for Nouns, an image of the object in question is a more probable starting point.
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith You May be interested in this. I remember the Conservative party was picked up on being the only major party in the last UK general election not to provide a BSL translation of their (written) manifesto, a concept that confused me so much I spent a day or two researching written sign languages.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Chronocidal Very good point. I expect you would need either a representation of movement, or a symbolic representation of the whole appendage movement that's divorced from the actual movement itself. I'd expect that would be a later development.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Yeah BSL differs quite a lot from English, especially in grammar. Certainly enough to require translations between the two!
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Chalk and slate, charcoal and wood, or clay or wax tablets. (At least to start.) They would have started by scratching characters into the dirt and painting on cave walls, but technological necessity would develop portable tools.
That said, there's a more portable mechanism yet that would likely evolve in parallel - sign language. If the creatures are unable to make any sounds, that doesn't necessitate a written language.
(It goes without saying that advances in writing technology would be adopted as it was developed.)
$endgroup$
Chalk and slate, charcoal and wood, or clay or wax tablets. (At least to start.) They would have started by scratching characters into the dirt and painting on cave walls, but technological necessity would develop portable tools.
That said, there's a more portable mechanism yet that would likely evolve in parallel - sign language. If the creatures are unable to make any sounds, that doesn't necessitate a written language.
(It goes without saying that advances in writing technology would be adopted as it was developed.)
answered 3 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
8,00811846
8,00811846
$begingroup$
Excellent idea, and with some expansion could be a perfect answer. So, if a species develops sign language first...what might its written language look like? I'd imagine it would start as a pictographic representation of whatever appendages they use for signing.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith In many sign-languages, the movement of the appendage is just as important as the shape and final positions. That can be rather hard to represent in static images. Certainly for Nouns, an image of the object in question is a more probable starting point.
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith You May be interested in this. I remember the Conservative party was picked up on being the only major party in the last UK general election not to provide a BSL translation of their (written) manifesto, a concept that confused me so much I spent a day or two researching written sign languages.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Chronocidal Very good point. I expect you would need either a representation of movement, or a symbolic representation of the whole appendage movement that's divorced from the actual movement itself. I'd expect that would be a later development.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Yeah BSL differs quite a lot from English, especially in grammar. Certainly enough to require translations between the two!
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Excellent idea, and with some expansion could be a perfect answer. So, if a species develops sign language first...what might its written language look like? I'd imagine it would start as a pictographic representation of whatever appendages they use for signing.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith In many sign-languages, the movement of the appendage is just as important as the shape and final positions. That can be rather hard to represent in static images. Certainly for Nouns, an image of the object in question is a more probable starting point.
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith You May be interested in this. I remember the Conservative party was picked up on being the only major party in the last UK general election not to provide a BSL translation of their (written) manifesto, a concept that confused me so much I spent a day or two researching written sign languages.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Chronocidal Very good point. I expect you would need either a representation of movement, or a symbolic representation of the whole appendage movement that's divorced from the actual movement itself. I'd expect that would be a later development.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Yeah BSL differs quite a lot from English, especially in grammar. Certainly enough to require translations between the two!
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Excellent idea, and with some expansion could be a perfect answer. So, if a species develops sign language first...what might its written language look like? I'd imagine it would start as a pictographic representation of whatever appendages they use for signing.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Excellent idea, and with some expansion could be a perfect answer. So, if a species develops sign language first...what might its written language look like? I'd imagine it would start as a pictographic representation of whatever appendages they use for signing.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith In many sign-languages, the movement of the appendage is just as important as the shape and final positions. That can be rather hard to represent in static images. Certainly for Nouns, an image of the object in question is a more probable starting point.
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith In many sign-languages, the movement of the appendage is just as important as the shape and final positions. That can be rather hard to represent in static images. Certainly for Nouns, an image of the object in question is a more probable starting point.
$endgroup$
– Chronocidal
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith You May be interested in this. I remember the Conservative party was picked up on being the only major party in the last UK general election not to provide a BSL translation of their (written) manifesto, a concept that confused me so much I spent a day or two researching written sign languages.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ynneadwraith You May be interested in this. I remember the Conservative party was picked up on being the only major party in the last UK general election not to provide a BSL translation of their (written) manifesto, a concept that confused me so much I spent a day or two researching written sign languages.
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Chronocidal Very good point. I expect you would need either a representation of movement, or a symbolic representation of the whole appendage movement that's divorced from the actual movement itself. I'd expect that would be a later development.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Chronocidal Very good point. I expect you would need either a representation of movement, or a symbolic representation of the whole appendage movement that's divorced from the actual movement itself. I'd expect that would be a later development.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Yeah BSL differs quite a lot from English, especially in grammar. Certainly enough to require translations between the two!
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JoeBloggs Yeah BSL differs quite a lot from English, especially in grammar. Certainly enough to require translations between the two!
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It may be 2-dimensional as well as 1-dimensional
Speech, sign languages and such transmit a single sign at a time, thus forcing the writing, which is secondary, to also form a sequence of signs that can be read one at a time.
A language made by different species that originates in a written form directly doesn't have to follow this restriction. It's likely to develop from the sights of the body language, and there several signs can be formed simultaneously by different body parts, each being as complex as human facial expressions.
If your species have brains adapted to read such complex poses, their writings will first capture the poses in something like parietal art. And it will get more abstract from that, to the level of modern ideographs or more. But no need may ever arise to linearize it.
So the words or sentences in the language may be based on a graph grammar instead of our conventional string grammars. Graph grammars are usually more powerful at the same level of rule types, a context-free one able to form sentences that only a context-dependent can make in pure one-dimensional text. So a writing that has never passed through speech form has a potential to be something drastically different from human speech and lead to a completely alien way of thinking.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It may be 2-dimensional as well as 1-dimensional
Speech, sign languages and such transmit a single sign at a time, thus forcing the writing, which is secondary, to also form a sequence of signs that can be read one at a time.
A language made by different species that originates in a written form directly doesn't have to follow this restriction. It's likely to develop from the sights of the body language, and there several signs can be formed simultaneously by different body parts, each being as complex as human facial expressions.
If your species have brains adapted to read such complex poses, their writings will first capture the poses in something like parietal art. And it will get more abstract from that, to the level of modern ideographs or more. But no need may ever arise to linearize it.
So the words or sentences in the language may be based on a graph grammar instead of our conventional string grammars. Graph grammars are usually more powerful at the same level of rule types, a context-free one able to form sentences that only a context-dependent can make in pure one-dimensional text. So a writing that has never passed through speech form has a potential to be something drastically different from human speech and lead to a completely alien way of thinking.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It may be 2-dimensional as well as 1-dimensional
Speech, sign languages and such transmit a single sign at a time, thus forcing the writing, which is secondary, to also form a sequence of signs that can be read one at a time.
A language made by different species that originates in a written form directly doesn't have to follow this restriction. It's likely to develop from the sights of the body language, and there several signs can be formed simultaneously by different body parts, each being as complex as human facial expressions.
If your species have brains adapted to read such complex poses, their writings will first capture the poses in something like parietal art. And it will get more abstract from that, to the level of modern ideographs or more. But no need may ever arise to linearize it.
So the words or sentences in the language may be based on a graph grammar instead of our conventional string grammars. Graph grammars are usually more powerful at the same level of rule types, a context-free one able to form sentences that only a context-dependent can make in pure one-dimensional text. So a writing that has never passed through speech form has a potential to be something drastically different from human speech and lead to a completely alien way of thinking.
$endgroup$
It may be 2-dimensional as well as 1-dimensional
Speech, sign languages and such transmit a single sign at a time, thus forcing the writing, which is secondary, to also form a sequence of signs that can be read one at a time.
A language made by different species that originates in a written form directly doesn't have to follow this restriction. It's likely to develop from the sights of the body language, and there several signs can be formed simultaneously by different body parts, each being as complex as human facial expressions.
If your species have brains adapted to read such complex poses, their writings will first capture the poses in something like parietal art. And it will get more abstract from that, to the level of modern ideographs or more. But no need may ever arise to linearize it.
So the words or sentences in the language may be based on a graph grammar instead of our conventional string grammars. Graph grammars are usually more powerful at the same level of rule types, a context-free one able to form sentences that only a context-dependent can make in pure one-dimensional text. So a writing that has never passed through speech form has a potential to be something drastically different from human speech and lead to a completely alien way of thinking.
answered 1 hour ago
avekavek
1,625414
1,625414
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A language could be developed in any manner that conveys information. Sound can be carried in other ways than using vocal cords. Clapping, snapping fingers, clicking claws, sign language. It might even develop from facial expressions.
A written language might be assumed to start from pictures such as hieroglyphics, but it could also be symbol based. For instance, if the language started from sign language, the written language may mimic the shapes of the sign language. If the language were based on the tapping of sticks together, the written language may somehow show the beat (like music for drums).
How the language is conveyed may bias the society toward being more mathematical (from rhythms) or being emotional tuned to each other if based on facial expressions.
While it doesn't have to, I see no reason to think that the technology couldn't follow the same path as our technology, assuming they have hands or something similar once a language is invented to manipulate tools the same way.
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A language could be developed in any manner that conveys information. Sound can be carried in other ways than using vocal cords. Clapping, snapping fingers, clicking claws, sign language. It might even develop from facial expressions.
A written language might be assumed to start from pictures such as hieroglyphics, but it could also be symbol based. For instance, if the language started from sign language, the written language may mimic the shapes of the sign language. If the language were based on the tapping of sticks together, the written language may somehow show the beat (like music for drums).
How the language is conveyed may bias the society toward being more mathematical (from rhythms) or being emotional tuned to each other if based on facial expressions.
While it doesn't have to, I see no reason to think that the technology couldn't follow the same path as our technology, assuming they have hands or something similar once a language is invented to manipulate tools the same way.
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A language could be developed in any manner that conveys information. Sound can be carried in other ways than using vocal cords. Clapping, snapping fingers, clicking claws, sign language. It might even develop from facial expressions.
A written language might be assumed to start from pictures such as hieroglyphics, but it could also be symbol based. For instance, if the language started from sign language, the written language may mimic the shapes of the sign language. If the language were based on the tapping of sticks together, the written language may somehow show the beat (like music for drums).
How the language is conveyed may bias the society toward being more mathematical (from rhythms) or being emotional tuned to each other if based on facial expressions.
While it doesn't have to, I see no reason to think that the technology couldn't follow the same path as our technology, assuming they have hands or something similar once a language is invented to manipulate tools the same way.
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
A language could be developed in any manner that conveys information. Sound can be carried in other ways than using vocal cords. Clapping, snapping fingers, clicking claws, sign language. It might even develop from facial expressions.
A written language might be assumed to start from pictures such as hieroglyphics, but it could also be symbol based. For instance, if the language started from sign language, the written language may mimic the shapes of the sign language. If the language were based on the tapping of sticks together, the written language may somehow show the beat (like music for drums).
How the language is conveyed may bias the society toward being more mathematical (from rhythms) or being emotional tuned to each other if based on facial expressions.
While it doesn't have to, I see no reason to think that the technology couldn't follow the same path as our technology, assuming they have hands or something similar once a language is invented to manipulate tools the same way.
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 3 hours ago
MJ-KonkelMJ-Konkel
12
12
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
MJ-Konkel is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My understanding is that pictographs like hieroglyphics are developed before an alphabet takes form. Once the alphabet forms, your fictional species could use bioluminescence to communicate in a style similar to morse code. A certain sequence of blinks would represent a written letter. Certain colors could also express different emotions.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My understanding is that pictographs like hieroglyphics are developed before an alphabet takes form. Once the alphabet forms, your fictional species could use bioluminescence to communicate in a style similar to morse code. A certain sequence of blinks would represent a written letter. Certain colors could also express different emotions.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My understanding is that pictographs like hieroglyphics are developed before an alphabet takes form. Once the alphabet forms, your fictional species could use bioluminescence to communicate in a style similar to morse code. A certain sequence of blinks would represent a written letter. Certain colors could also express different emotions.
$endgroup$
My understanding is that pictographs like hieroglyphics are developed before an alphabet takes form. Once the alphabet forms, your fictional species could use bioluminescence to communicate in a style similar to morse code. A certain sequence of blinks would represent a written letter. Certain colors could also express different emotions.
answered 2 hours ago
SciFiGuySciFiGuy
1,39011
1,39011
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Writing developed from pictures to pictograms to ideograms. In a species with spoken language it can then move to phonetic scripts such as syllabaries and alphabets. But in a species that does not speak the next step would reasonably a featural script describing whatever method they used to communicate without writing.
What form that takes is really up to you. For sign language it would be stylized representations of the gestures. For color based communication, it would be just the colors. Or bunch of lines of different lengths corresponding to different possible colors. Which would also work for scent or radio based communication.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Writing developed from pictures to pictograms to ideograms. In a species with spoken language it can then move to phonetic scripts such as syllabaries and alphabets. But in a species that does not speak the next step would reasonably a featural script describing whatever method they used to communicate without writing.
What form that takes is really up to you. For sign language it would be stylized representations of the gestures. For color based communication, it would be just the colors. Or bunch of lines of different lengths corresponding to different possible colors. Which would also work for scent or radio based communication.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Writing developed from pictures to pictograms to ideograms. In a species with spoken language it can then move to phonetic scripts such as syllabaries and alphabets. But in a species that does not speak the next step would reasonably a featural script describing whatever method they used to communicate without writing.
What form that takes is really up to you. For sign language it would be stylized representations of the gestures. For color based communication, it would be just the colors. Or bunch of lines of different lengths corresponding to different possible colors. Which would also work for scent or radio based communication.
$endgroup$
Writing developed from pictures to pictograms to ideograms. In a species with spoken language it can then move to phonetic scripts such as syllabaries and alphabets. But in a species that does not speak the next step would reasonably a featural script describing whatever method they used to communicate without writing.
What form that takes is really up to you. For sign language it would be stylized representations of the gestures. For color based communication, it would be just the colors. Or bunch of lines of different lengths corresponding to different possible colors. Which would also work for scent or radio based communication.
answered 2 hours ago
Ville NiemiVille Niemi
34.2k260119
34.2k260119
add a comment |
add a comment |
Sage is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sage is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sage is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sage is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f141838%2fhow-would-a-solely-written-language-work-mechanically%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
An interesting problem is that they could not have the concept of phonemes. I would think this would make it likely that they end up with a language with a symbol for each word, since the semantics are the fundamental structure now.
$endgroup$
– Ryan_L
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Think "sign language".
$endgroup$
– StephenG
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why do you think there is any necessary connection between spoken and written language?
$endgroup$
– Jeff Zeitlin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Birds do not have vocal chords and yet they can make all the sounds humans can make, and many other sounds on top. Moreover, there is a great real-world example of a script (almost) completely divorced from the phonetic realization of the language: Chinese characters; they form the basis of a famous thought experiment, the Chinese room, which is often used to exemplify the difference (or lack thereof) between symbol manipulation and comprehension.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP Likewise, insects are capable of a dizzying array of sounds and don't even pass air through their sound-making apparatus. Still, the question is still useful: 'How would a written language develop in a species that cannot communicate using sound?'.
$endgroup$
– Ynneadwraith
2 hours ago