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“of which” is correct here?


usage of relative pronoun *which*Weird commercial catchphrase of Seven Eleven JapanWhy can “that is” be omitted in this relative clause?What relative pronoun should I use here? which or that?Relative clause as a subject predicateWhat is the meaning of 'in which' here?Which is grammatically correct between these two?Correct tense in a following sentenceThat's the book of the God in which we believeHow can the noun in a sentence get modified by a relative pronoun 'which'?













1















I read 2 quotes written by Victor Hugo by change like this:




  1. Life is the flower of which love is the honey.


  2. Life is the flower for which love is the honey.




Which of the sentence is correct?



Assume that the sentence 1 is correct, so can I rewrite that sentence like below?




Life is the flower which love is the honey of




But It sounds weird for me?










share|improve this question






















  • They are both grammatical—but they have different meanings. (Your rephrasing is technically okay, but sounds strange. Note that you could also rephrase the second sentence in the same way, using for.)

    – Jason Bassford
    9 hours ago







  • 1





    Do you please have any sources ? I assume Victor Hugo is famous enough to provide us a reliable source of your quote.

    – Ced
    9 hours ago















1















I read 2 quotes written by Victor Hugo by change like this:




  1. Life is the flower of which love is the honey.


  2. Life is the flower for which love is the honey.




Which of the sentence is correct?



Assume that the sentence 1 is correct, so can I rewrite that sentence like below?




Life is the flower which love is the honey of




But It sounds weird for me?










share|improve this question






















  • They are both grammatical—but they have different meanings. (Your rephrasing is technically okay, but sounds strange. Note that you could also rephrase the second sentence in the same way, using for.)

    – Jason Bassford
    9 hours ago







  • 1





    Do you please have any sources ? I assume Victor Hugo is famous enough to provide us a reliable source of your quote.

    – Ced
    9 hours ago













1












1








1








I read 2 quotes written by Victor Hugo by change like this:




  1. Life is the flower of which love is the honey.


  2. Life is the flower for which love is the honey.




Which of the sentence is correct?



Assume that the sentence 1 is correct, so can I rewrite that sentence like below?




Life is the flower which love is the honey of




But It sounds weird for me?










share|improve this question














I read 2 quotes written by Victor Hugo by change like this:




  1. Life is the flower of which love is the honey.


  2. Life is the flower for which love is the honey.




Which of the sentence is correct?



Assume that the sentence 1 is correct, so can I rewrite that sentence like below?




Life is the flower which love is the honey of




But It sounds weird for me?







grammar relative-clauses relative-pronouns






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 10 hours ago









Pham Van DucPham Van Duc

6618




6618












  • They are both grammatical—but they have different meanings. (Your rephrasing is technically okay, but sounds strange. Note that you could also rephrase the second sentence in the same way, using for.)

    – Jason Bassford
    9 hours ago







  • 1





    Do you please have any sources ? I assume Victor Hugo is famous enough to provide us a reliable source of your quote.

    – Ced
    9 hours ago

















  • They are both grammatical—but they have different meanings. (Your rephrasing is technically okay, but sounds strange. Note that you could also rephrase the second sentence in the same way, using for.)

    – Jason Bassford
    9 hours ago







  • 1





    Do you please have any sources ? I assume Victor Hugo is famous enough to provide us a reliable source of your quote.

    – Ced
    9 hours ago
















They are both grammatical—but they have different meanings. (Your rephrasing is technically okay, but sounds strange. Note that you could also rephrase the second sentence in the same way, using for.)

– Jason Bassford
9 hours ago






They are both grammatical—but they have different meanings. (Your rephrasing is technically okay, but sounds strange. Note that you could also rephrase the second sentence in the same way, using for.)

– Jason Bassford
9 hours ago





1




1





Do you please have any sources ? I assume Victor Hugo is famous enough to provide us a reliable source of your quote.

– Ced
9 hours ago





Do you please have any sources ? I assume Victor Hugo is famous enough to provide us a reliable source of your quote.

– Ced
9 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4














The bests translations would be:




Life is a flower, and love is the honey of this flower.



Life is a flower, and love is its honey.




The original quote from Victor Hugo (which is a French poet, novelist, and dramatist of the Romantic movement.) is:




La vie est une fleur, l'amour en est le miel.

C'est la colombe unie à l'aigle dans le ciel,

C'est la grâce tremblante à la force appuyée,

C'est ta main dans ma main doucement oubliée.




Source: Le Roi s'amuse (1832), Victor Hugo






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    I think both your own and SamBC's answer really just reflect the fact that the brevity / precision of the original French syntax simply can't be replicated in English without it sounding a bit weird. But you can have my upvote, 'cos you went to the trouble of including the original (with link, ty). With my somewhat imperfect command of French, I can't really tell how "natural" (as opposed to "poetic") the word en is there. I think the construction is probably not that common, but what do I know? (Rightly or wrongly, I'd probably have tried to squeeze dont in there somewhere!" :)

    – FumbleFingers
    7 hours ago











  • What's wrong with 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' or even 'Life is a flower, and love is the honey'? The best translation doesn't seem very lyrical or elegant

    – Au101
    6 hours ago











  • Well as @FumbleFingers correctly said I don't think there is a good way to say the "l'amour en est le miel." french part in english without sounding a bit weird, There is just no translations in english to say it. However 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' doesn't sounds that bad, I will add it as a possible translation thanks for the feedback !

    – Ced
    6 hours ago






  • 1





    @Au101: Haha - what this goes to show is that translators (esp of poetic text) should probably work in teams, even though the poets themselves usually work better alone!

    – FumbleFingers
    6 hours ago


















3














Well, I imagine the composition of those was down to the translator, seeing as Victor Hugo was French. The translator will have tried to render the idea, the meaning of Hugo's writing into English.



That doesn't matter too much for this question, though. Let's rewrite both sentences into more conventional modern word order and phrasing.




Love is the honey of the flower that is life.

Love is the honey for the flower that is life.




You see, the life/flower and love/honey combinations are metaphors. Life is represented by a flow, and love is represented by honey. So, let's get rid of the metaphorical association and just use the honey and flower:




The honey of the flower.

The honey for the flower.




Of is used genitively here, meaning it is the honey that comes from the flower (or belongs to it, or is associated with it closely - but we know that honey comes from flowers, albeit via bees). It makes more sense to talk about honey coming from a flower than it does to have honey being for a flower.



So, yes, number 1 is correct.



As to your rewriting, you can rewrite it that way as long as you're not showing it to someone who subscribes to the old "don't end a sentence with a preposition" thing. The phrasing is such as it is in your examples due to people trying to follow that rule. Personally, in this case (not always), I find the example more pleasing than the rewrite. It is harder to follow, though, and trying to always follow that rule can end up with very, very strange sentences and is, as is frequently noted, "the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put" (variants of that phrase are often attributed to Churchill, with no clear basis in fact, but the actual point is a good one).





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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    4














    The bests translations would be:




    Life is a flower, and love is the honey of this flower.



    Life is a flower, and love is its honey.




    The original quote from Victor Hugo (which is a French poet, novelist, and dramatist of the Romantic movement.) is:




    La vie est une fleur, l'amour en est le miel.

    C'est la colombe unie à l'aigle dans le ciel,

    C'est la grâce tremblante à la force appuyée,

    C'est ta main dans ma main doucement oubliée.




    Source: Le Roi s'amuse (1832), Victor Hugo






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      I think both your own and SamBC's answer really just reflect the fact that the brevity / precision of the original French syntax simply can't be replicated in English without it sounding a bit weird. But you can have my upvote, 'cos you went to the trouble of including the original (with link, ty). With my somewhat imperfect command of French, I can't really tell how "natural" (as opposed to "poetic") the word en is there. I think the construction is probably not that common, but what do I know? (Rightly or wrongly, I'd probably have tried to squeeze dont in there somewhere!" :)

      – FumbleFingers
      7 hours ago











    • What's wrong with 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' or even 'Life is a flower, and love is the honey'? The best translation doesn't seem very lyrical or elegant

      – Au101
      6 hours ago











    • Well as @FumbleFingers correctly said I don't think there is a good way to say the "l'amour en est le miel." french part in english without sounding a bit weird, There is just no translations in english to say it. However 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' doesn't sounds that bad, I will add it as a possible translation thanks for the feedback !

      – Ced
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      @Au101: Haha - what this goes to show is that translators (esp of poetic text) should probably work in teams, even though the poets themselves usually work better alone!

      – FumbleFingers
      6 hours ago















    4














    The bests translations would be:




    Life is a flower, and love is the honey of this flower.



    Life is a flower, and love is its honey.




    The original quote from Victor Hugo (which is a French poet, novelist, and dramatist of the Romantic movement.) is:




    La vie est une fleur, l'amour en est le miel.

    C'est la colombe unie à l'aigle dans le ciel,

    C'est la grâce tremblante à la force appuyée,

    C'est ta main dans ma main doucement oubliée.




    Source: Le Roi s'amuse (1832), Victor Hugo






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      I think both your own and SamBC's answer really just reflect the fact that the brevity / precision of the original French syntax simply can't be replicated in English without it sounding a bit weird. But you can have my upvote, 'cos you went to the trouble of including the original (with link, ty). With my somewhat imperfect command of French, I can't really tell how "natural" (as opposed to "poetic") the word en is there. I think the construction is probably not that common, but what do I know? (Rightly or wrongly, I'd probably have tried to squeeze dont in there somewhere!" :)

      – FumbleFingers
      7 hours ago











    • What's wrong with 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' or even 'Life is a flower, and love is the honey'? The best translation doesn't seem very lyrical or elegant

      – Au101
      6 hours ago











    • Well as @FumbleFingers correctly said I don't think there is a good way to say the "l'amour en est le miel." french part in english without sounding a bit weird, There is just no translations in english to say it. However 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' doesn't sounds that bad, I will add it as a possible translation thanks for the feedback !

      – Ced
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      @Au101: Haha - what this goes to show is that translators (esp of poetic text) should probably work in teams, even though the poets themselves usually work better alone!

      – FumbleFingers
      6 hours ago













    4












    4








    4







    The bests translations would be:




    Life is a flower, and love is the honey of this flower.



    Life is a flower, and love is its honey.




    The original quote from Victor Hugo (which is a French poet, novelist, and dramatist of the Romantic movement.) is:




    La vie est une fleur, l'amour en est le miel.

    C'est la colombe unie à l'aigle dans le ciel,

    C'est la grâce tremblante à la force appuyée,

    C'est ta main dans ma main doucement oubliée.




    Source: Le Roi s'amuse (1832), Victor Hugo






    share|improve this answer















    The bests translations would be:




    Life is a flower, and love is the honey of this flower.



    Life is a flower, and love is its honey.




    The original quote from Victor Hugo (which is a French poet, novelist, and dramatist of the Romantic movement.) is:




    La vie est une fleur, l'amour en est le miel.

    C'est la colombe unie à l'aigle dans le ciel,

    C'est la grâce tremblante à la force appuyée,

    C'est ta main dans ma main doucement oubliée.




    Source: Le Roi s'amuse (1832), Victor Hugo







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 6 hours ago

























    answered 9 hours ago









    CedCed

    70812




    70812







    • 1





      I think both your own and SamBC's answer really just reflect the fact that the brevity / precision of the original French syntax simply can't be replicated in English without it sounding a bit weird. But you can have my upvote, 'cos you went to the trouble of including the original (with link, ty). With my somewhat imperfect command of French, I can't really tell how "natural" (as opposed to "poetic") the word en is there. I think the construction is probably not that common, but what do I know? (Rightly or wrongly, I'd probably have tried to squeeze dont in there somewhere!" :)

      – FumbleFingers
      7 hours ago











    • What's wrong with 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' or even 'Life is a flower, and love is the honey'? The best translation doesn't seem very lyrical or elegant

      – Au101
      6 hours ago











    • Well as @FumbleFingers correctly said I don't think there is a good way to say the "l'amour en est le miel." french part in english without sounding a bit weird, There is just no translations in english to say it. However 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' doesn't sounds that bad, I will add it as a possible translation thanks for the feedback !

      – Ced
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      @Au101: Haha - what this goes to show is that translators (esp of poetic text) should probably work in teams, even though the poets themselves usually work better alone!

      – FumbleFingers
      6 hours ago












    • 1





      I think both your own and SamBC's answer really just reflect the fact that the brevity / precision of the original French syntax simply can't be replicated in English without it sounding a bit weird. But you can have my upvote, 'cos you went to the trouble of including the original (with link, ty). With my somewhat imperfect command of French, I can't really tell how "natural" (as opposed to "poetic") the word en is there. I think the construction is probably not that common, but what do I know? (Rightly or wrongly, I'd probably have tried to squeeze dont in there somewhere!" :)

      – FumbleFingers
      7 hours ago











    • What's wrong with 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' or even 'Life is a flower, and love is the honey'? The best translation doesn't seem very lyrical or elegant

      – Au101
      6 hours ago











    • Well as @FumbleFingers correctly said I don't think there is a good way to say the "l'amour en est le miel." french part in english without sounding a bit weird, There is just no translations in english to say it. However 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' doesn't sounds that bad, I will add it as a possible translation thanks for the feedback !

      – Ced
      6 hours ago






    • 1





      @Au101: Haha - what this goes to show is that translators (esp of poetic text) should probably work in teams, even though the poets themselves usually work better alone!

      – FumbleFingers
      6 hours ago







    1




    1





    I think both your own and SamBC's answer really just reflect the fact that the brevity / precision of the original French syntax simply can't be replicated in English without it sounding a bit weird. But you can have my upvote, 'cos you went to the trouble of including the original (with link, ty). With my somewhat imperfect command of French, I can't really tell how "natural" (as opposed to "poetic") the word en is there. I think the construction is probably not that common, but what do I know? (Rightly or wrongly, I'd probably have tried to squeeze dont in there somewhere!" :)

    – FumbleFingers
    7 hours ago





    I think both your own and SamBC's answer really just reflect the fact that the brevity / precision of the original French syntax simply can't be replicated in English without it sounding a bit weird. But you can have my upvote, 'cos you went to the trouble of including the original (with link, ty). With my somewhat imperfect command of French, I can't really tell how "natural" (as opposed to "poetic") the word en is there. I think the construction is probably not that common, but what do I know? (Rightly or wrongly, I'd probably have tried to squeeze dont in there somewhere!" :)

    – FumbleFingers
    7 hours ago













    What's wrong with 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' or even 'Life is a flower, and love is the honey'? The best translation doesn't seem very lyrical or elegant

    – Au101
    6 hours ago





    What's wrong with 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' or even 'Life is a flower, and love is the honey'? The best translation doesn't seem very lyrical or elegant

    – Au101
    6 hours ago













    Well as @FumbleFingers correctly said I don't think there is a good way to say the "l'amour en est le miel." french part in english without sounding a bit weird, There is just no translations in english to say it. However 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' doesn't sounds that bad, I will add it as a possible translation thanks for the feedback !

    – Ced
    6 hours ago





    Well as @FumbleFingers correctly said I don't think there is a good way to say the "l'amour en est le miel." french part in english without sounding a bit weird, There is just no translations in english to say it. However 'Life is a flower, and love is its honey' doesn't sounds that bad, I will add it as a possible translation thanks for the feedback !

    – Ced
    6 hours ago




    1




    1





    @Au101: Haha - what this goes to show is that translators (esp of poetic text) should probably work in teams, even though the poets themselves usually work better alone!

    – FumbleFingers
    6 hours ago





    @Au101: Haha - what this goes to show is that translators (esp of poetic text) should probably work in teams, even though the poets themselves usually work better alone!

    – FumbleFingers
    6 hours ago













    3














    Well, I imagine the composition of those was down to the translator, seeing as Victor Hugo was French. The translator will have tried to render the idea, the meaning of Hugo's writing into English.



    That doesn't matter too much for this question, though. Let's rewrite both sentences into more conventional modern word order and phrasing.




    Love is the honey of the flower that is life.

    Love is the honey for the flower that is life.




    You see, the life/flower and love/honey combinations are metaphors. Life is represented by a flow, and love is represented by honey. So, let's get rid of the metaphorical association and just use the honey and flower:




    The honey of the flower.

    The honey for the flower.




    Of is used genitively here, meaning it is the honey that comes from the flower (or belongs to it, or is associated with it closely - but we know that honey comes from flowers, albeit via bees). It makes more sense to talk about honey coming from a flower than it does to have honey being for a flower.



    So, yes, number 1 is correct.



    As to your rewriting, you can rewrite it that way as long as you're not showing it to someone who subscribes to the old "don't end a sentence with a preposition" thing. The phrasing is such as it is in your examples due to people trying to follow that rule. Personally, in this case (not always), I find the example more pleasing than the rewrite. It is harder to follow, though, and trying to always follow that rule can end up with very, very strange sentences and is, as is frequently noted, "the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put" (variants of that phrase are often attributed to Churchill, with no clear basis in fact, but the actual point is a good one).





    share



























      3














      Well, I imagine the composition of those was down to the translator, seeing as Victor Hugo was French. The translator will have tried to render the idea, the meaning of Hugo's writing into English.



      That doesn't matter too much for this question, though. Let's rewrite both sentences into more conventional modern word order and phrasing.




      Love is the honey of the flower that is life.

      Love is the honey for the flower that is life.




      You see, the life/flower and love/honey combinations are metaphors. Life is represented by a flow, and love is represented by honey. So, let's get rid of the metaphorical association and just use the honey and flower:




      The honey of the flower.

      The honey for the flower.




      Of is used genitively here, meaning it is the honey that comes from the flower (or belongs to it, or is associated with it closely - but we know that honey comes from flowers, albeit via bees). It makes more sense to talk about honey coming from a flower than it does to have honey being for a flower.



      So, yes, number 1 is correct.



      As to your rewriting, you can rewrite it that way as long as you're not showing it to someone who subscribes to the old "don't end a sentence with a preposition" thing. The phrasing is such as it is in your examples due to people trying to follow that rule. Personally, in this case (not always), I find the example more pleasing than the rewrite. It is harder to follow, though, and trying to always follow that rule can end up with very, very strange sentences and is, as is frequently noted, "the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put" (variants of that phrase are often attributed to Churchill, with no clear basis in fact, but the actual point is a good one).





      share

























        3












        3








        3







        Well, I imagine the composition of those was down to the translator, seeing as Victor Hugo was French. The translator will have tried to render the idea, the meaning of Hugo's writing into English.



        That doesn't matter too much for this question, though. Let's rewrite both sentences into more conventional modern word order and phrasing.




        Love is the honey of the flower that is life.

        Love is the honey for the flower that is life.




        You see, the life/flower and love/honey combinations are metaphors. Life is represented by a flow, and love is represented by honey. So, let's get rid of the metaphorical association and just use the honey and flower:




        The honey of the flower.

        The honey for the flower.




        Of is used genitively here, meaning it is the honey that comes from the flower (or belongs to it, or is associated with it closely - but we know that honey comes from flowers, albeit via bees). It makes more sense to talk about honey coming from a flower than it does to have honey being for a flower.



        So, yes, number 1 is correct.



        As to your rewriting, you can rewrite it that way as long as you're not showing it to someone who subscribes to the old "don't end a sentence with a preposition" thing. The phrasing is such as it is in your examples due to people trying to follow that rule. Personally, in this case (not always), I find the example more pleasing than the rewrite. It is harder to follow, though, and trying to always follow that rule can end up with very, very strange sentences and is, as is frequently noted, "the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put" (variants of that phrase are often attributed to Churchill, with no clear basis in fact, but the actual point is a good one).





        share













        Well, I imagine the composition of those was down to the translator, seeing as Victor Hugo was French. The translator will have tried to render the idea, the meaning of Hugo's writing into English.



        That doesn't matter too much for this question, though. Let's rewrite both sentences into more conventional modern word order and phrasing.




        Love is the honey of the flower that is life.

        Love is the honey for the flower that is life.




        You see, the life/flower and love/honey combinations are metaphors. Life is represented by a flow, and love is represented by honey. So, let's get rid of the metaphorical association and just use the honey and flower:




        The honey of the flower.

        The honey for the flower.




        Of is used genitively here, meaning it is the honey that comes from the flower (or belongs to it, or is associated with it closely - but we know that honey comes from flowers, albeit via bees). It makes more sense to talk about honey coming from a flower than it does to have honey being for a flower.



        So, yes, number 1 is correct.



        As to your rewriting, you can rewrite it that way as long as you're not showing it to someone who subscribes to the old "don't end a sentence with a preposition" thing. The phrasing is such as it is in your examples due to people trying to follow that rule. Personally, in this case (not always), I find the example more pleasing than the rewrite. It is harder to follow, though, and trying to always follow that rule can end up with very, very strange sentences and is, as is frequently noted, "the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put" (variants of that phrase are often attributed to Churchill, with no clear basis in fact, but the actual point is a good one).






        share











        share


        share










        answered 9 hours ago









        SamBCSamBC

        12.1k1545




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