What did “the good wine” (τὸν καλὸν οἶνον) mean in John 2:10?Did Jesus help drunk people to get even more drunk?In John 21:7, is Peter naked, and does he put on a coat before diving into the water?Rev 20:7-8 Syntax: Gog and Magog in apposition to what?In 2 Corinthians 6:17, should it be “unclean thing” or “unclean person”? Did Paul say what he meant and mean what he said?In Hebrews 11:3 what is the meaning of κατηρτίσθαι?In John 1:3 why does the author use ἐγένετο instead of ἐποίησεν?In Luke 15,1-7 is the shepherd in the parable equated to the Pharisees and the scribes?John 10:33 — Nominative vs. Accusative Nuance (θεος / θεον)In John 4:51 why a son (παῖς) and not a son (υἱός)?Is Jesus’ response to worship in John 9:38 only consistent with him being God?

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What did “the good wine” (τὸν καλὸν οἶνον) mean in John 2:10?


Did Jesus help drunk people to get even more drunk?In John 21:7, is Peter naked, and does he put on a coat before diving into the water?Rev 20:7-8 Syntax: Gog and Magog in apposition to what?In 2 Corinthians 6:17, should it be “unclean thing” or “unclean person”? Did Paul say what he meant and mean what he said?In Hebrews 11:3 what is the meaning of κατηρτίσθαι?In John 1:3 why does the author use ἐγένετο instead of ἐποίησεν?In Luke 15,1-7 is the shepherd in the parable equated to the Pharisees and the scribes?John 10:33 — Nominative vs. Accusative Nuance (θεος / θεον)In John 4:51 why a son (παῖς) and not a son (υἱός)?Is Jesus’ response to worship in John 9:38 only consistent with him being God?













2















What did “the good wine” (τὸν καλὸν οἶνον) mean in John 2:10?




and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, ESV)



καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ· πᾶς ἄνθρωπος πρῶτον τὸν καλὸν οἶνον τίθησιν καὶ ὅταν μεθυσθῶσιν τὸν ἐλάσσω· σὺ τετήρηκας τὸν καλὸν οἶνον ἕως ἄρτι. (John 2:10, NA27)




The standards of what good wine means has probably changed considerably now from what it meant in the first century. What did it mean to the master of the feast (ὁ ἀρχιτρίκλινος)?



We can be confident it wasn’t starting to change to vinegar. If they had no process to stop this, does that mean the wine was relatively new wine?










share|improve this question




























    2















    What did “the good wine” (τὸν καλὸν οἶνον) mean in John 2:10?




    and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, ESV)



    καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ· πᾶς ἄνθρωπος πρῶτον τὸν καλὸν οἶνον τίθησιν καὶ ὅταν μεθυσθῶσιν τὸν ἐλάσσω· σὺ τετήρηκας τὸν καλὸν οἶνον ἕως ἄρτι. (John 2:10, NA27)




    The standards of what good wine means has probably changed considerably now from what it meant in the first century. What did it mean to the master of the feast (ὁ ἀρχιτρίκλινος)?



    We can be confident it wasn’t starting to change to vinegar. If they had no process to stop this, does that mean the wine was relatively new wine?










    share|improve this question


























      2












      2








      2








      What did “the good wine” (τὸν καλὸν οἶνον) mean in John 2:10?




      and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, ESV)



      καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ· πᾶς ἄνθρωπος πρῶτον τὸν καλὸν οἶνον τίθησιν καὶ ὅταν μεθυσθῶσιν τὸν ἐλάσσω· σὺ τετήρηκας τὸν καλὸν οἶνον ἕως ἄρτι. (John 2:10, NA27)




      The standards of what good wine means has probably changed considerably now from what it meant in the first century. What did it mean to the master of the feast (ὁ ἀρχιτρίκλινος)?



      We can be confident it wasn’t starting to change to vinegar. If they had no process to stop this, does that mean the wine was relatively new wine?










      share|improve this question
















      What did “the good wine” (τὸν καλὸν οἶνον) mean in John 2:10?




      and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.” (John 2:10, ESV)



      καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ· πᾶς ἄνθρωπος πρῶτον τὸν καλὸν οἶνον τίθησιν καὶ ὅταν μεθυσθῶσιν τὸν ἐλάσσω· σὺ τετήρηκας τὸν καλὸν οἶνον ἕως ἄρτι. (John 2:10, NA27)




      The standards of what good wine means has probably changed considerably now from what it meant in the first century. What did it mean to the master of the feast (ὁ ἀρχιτρίκλινος)?



      We can be confident it wasn’t starting to change to vinegar. If they had no process to stop this, does that mean the wine was relatively new wine?







      greek john new-testament






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 9 hours ago







      Perry Webb

















      asked 9 hours ago









      Perry WebbPerry Webb

      1,3101217




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          3














          It was customary at the time to serve the good wine first while people were still sober and discriminating. The poor wine would be served later when the guests were somewhat intoxicated and not so likely to notice the quality of the beverage being served.



          In “The Tastes of Wine: Towards a Cultural History, by Steven Shapin, Aristotle listed «the species of flavour», and one can recognize these species as close to our modern neuro-physiologically-informed basic taste categories of sweet, sour, bitter, and salty: there were the opposing categories, sweet and bitter. The former included the succulent, and the latter, the salty. Somewhere in between came the pungent, the harsh, the astringent, and the acid.



          Pliny referred to wine tastes as “tart”, “sharp”, “harsh”, “hard”, “rough”, “luscious”, and “unripe”, and tasting too much of wood – all bad things – and, for evidently good tastes, he deployed a more restricted and less referential repertoire, notably including “pretty”, “pleasant”, and, of course, “sweet”.



          But, as Andrew Dalby notes, Roman connoisseurs rarely mentioned what must have been one of the main taste elements of foreign wines, many of which were brined and spiced to stabilize them for sea transport.



          https://journals.openedition.org/estetica/1395?lang=en



          Although the practice of tasting is as old as the history of wine, the term "tasting" first appeared in 1519.[4] The methodology of wine tasting was formalized by the 18th century when Linnaeus, Poncelet, and others brought an understanding of tasting up to date.



          The results of the four recognized stages to wine tasting:



          appearance
          "in glass" the aroma of the wine,
          "in mouth" sensations,
          "finish" (aftertaste)[6],
          – are combined in order to establish the following properties of a wine:,



          complexity and character,
          potential (suitability for aging or drinking),
          possible faults



          A wine's overall quality assessment, based on this examination, follows further careful description and comparison with recognized standards, both with respect to other wines in its price range and according to known factors pertaining to the region or vintage; if it is typical of the region or diverges in style; if it uses certain wine-making techniques, such as barrel fermentation or malolactic fermentation, or any other remarkable or unusual characteristics.[7]



          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_tasting






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          • Wine does not change to vinegar if it is bottled and properly stored in airtight containers. It is only when the fermentation process is allowed to continue that vinegar is produced. Oxygen is a necessary element for fermentation and bottling eliminates the oxygen..

            – Dan
            8 hours ago


















          2














          Let us remind ourselves of a few facts about this wedding incident in John 2:1-12.



          • The Greek word οἶνος (oinos), according to BDAG always refers to "a beverage made from fermented juice of the grape, wine; the word for 'must' or unfermented grape juice is 'trux';"[not used in the NT]. This is confirmed by all its other uses in the NT: Matt 9:17, 27:34, Luke 1:15, 7:33, 10:34, Rom 14:21, Eph 5:18, 1 Tim 3:8, 5:23, Titus 2:3, Rev 6:6, 14:8, 10, 16:19, 17:2, 18:3, 13, 19:15.

          • Grapes were harvested and processed into wine in about September before the feast of Trumpets.

          • The wedding occurred just before the time of the Passover (John 2:13), about March. Therefore, fresh wine would be unavailable - only bottled wine would be available.

          • When wine is exposed to the oxygen in the air, the (ethyl-) alcohol is (slowly) oxidised to vinegar (acetic acid) creating an inferior drink. Thus, wines were, wherever possible, stored in wineskins (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) to minimise this effect. These leather bottles were not cheap and could only be used once (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) and thus making good wine more expensive than un-bottled wine that goes sour (see Matt 27:34, 48, Mark 15:36, Luke 23:36, John 19:29).

          • The verb μεθυσθῶσιν (methysthōsin = are drunk/intoxicated) (John 2:10) from the lexical form μεθύω (methuó) means to get drunk and intoxicated as indicated in its other NT uses: Matt 24:49, Acts 2:15, 1 Cor 11:21, 1 Thess 5:7, Rev 17:6.

          • The usual practice at feasts was to serve the good (not sour) wine first so that by the time it ran out, guests would be drunk and happy to drink almost anything including the sour wine. The pulpit commentary observes:


          The best wine is appropriately given when the seneca are keenest, but
          when the climax of the festival has come, when they have drunk too
          deeply, or are intoxicated, then the weaker, poorer, and less fragrant
          wine is acceptable.




          Thus, "good" wine simply meant wine that was good to taste and not yet oxidised to become sour. I am sure it also meant wine from the best vineyards with the best aroma, etc, as well.






          share|improve this answer























          • "good wine" as it is used here is a metaphor. The chemistry is somewhat irrelevant.

            – C. Stirling Bartholomew
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            What, in the text, makes you believe this is just a metaphor?

            – Mac's Musings
            5 hours ago










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          2 Answers
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          It was customary at the time to serve the good wine first while people were still sober and discriminating. The poor wine would be served later when the guests were somewhat intoxicated and not so likely to notice the quality of the beverage being served.



          In “The Tastes of Wine: Towards a Cultural History, by Steven Shapin, Aristotle listed «the species of flavour», and one can recognize these species as close to our modern neuro-physiologically-informed basic taste categories of sweet, sour, bitter, and salty: there were the opposing categories, sweet and bitter. The former included the succulent, and the latter, the salty. Somewhere in between came the pungent, the harsh, the astringent, and the acid.



          Pliny referred to wine tastes as “tart”, “sharp”, “harsh”, “hard”, “rough”, “luscious”, and “unripe”, and tasting too much of wood – all bad things – and, for evidently good tastes, he deployed a more restricted and less referential repertoire, notably including “pretty”, “pleasant”, and, of course, “sweet”.



          But, as Andrew Dalby notes, Roman connoisseurs rarely mentioned what must have been one of the main taste elements of foreign wines, many of which were brined and spiced to stabilize them for sea transport.



          https://journals.openedition.org/estetica/1395?lang=en



          Although the practice of tasting is as old as the history of wine, the term "tasting" first appeared in 1519.[4] The methodology of wine tasting was formalized by the 18th century when Linnaeus, Poncelet, and others brought an understanding of tasting up to date.



          The results of the four recognized stages to wine tasting:



          appearance
          "in glass" the aroma of the wine,
          "in mouth" sensations,
          "finish" (aftertaste)[6],
          – are combined in order to establish the following properties of a wine:,



          complexity and character,
          potential (suitability for aging or drinking),
          possible faults



          A wine's overall quality assessment, based on this examination, follows further careful description and comparison with recognized standards, both with respect to other wines in its price range and according to known factors pertaining to the region or vintage; if it is typical of the region or diverges in style; if it uses certain wine-making techniques, such as barrel fermentation or malolactic fermentation, or any other remarkable or unusual characteristics.[7]



          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_tasting






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          • Wine does not change to vinegar if it is bottled and properly stored in airtight containers. It is only when the fermentation process is allowed to continue that vinegar is produced. Oxygen is a necessary element for fermentation and bottling eliminates the oxygen..

            – Dan
            8 hours ago















          3














          It was customary at the time to serve the good wine first while people were still sober and discriminating. The poor wine would be served later when the guests were somewhat intoxicated and not so likely to notice the quality of the beverage being served.



          In “The Tastes of Wine: Towards a Cultural History, by Steven Shapin, Aristotle listed «the species of flavour», and one can recognize these species as close to our modern neuro-physiologically-informed basic taste categories of sweet, sour, bitter, and salty: there were the opposing categories, sweet and bitter. The former included the succulent, and the latter, the salty. Somewhere in between came the pungent, the harsh, the astringent, and the acid.



          Pliny referred to wine tastes as “tart”, “sharp”, “harsh”, “hard”, “rough”, “luscious”, and “unripe”, and tasting too much of wood – all bad things – and, for evidently good tastes, he deployed a more restricted and less referential repertoire, notably including “pretty”, “pleasant”, and, of course, “sweet”.



          But, as Andrew Dalby notes, Roman connoisseurs rarely mentioned what must have been one of the main taste elements of foreign wines, many of which were brined and spiced to stabilize them for sea transport.



          https://journals.openedition.org/estetica/1395?lang=en



          Although the practice of tasting is as old as the history of wine, the term "tasting" first appeared in 1519.[4] The methodology of wine tasting was formalized by the 18th century when Linnaeus, Poncelet, and others brought an understanding of tasting up to date.



          The results of the four recognized stages to wine tasting:



          appearance
          "in glass" the aroma of the wine,
          "in mouth" sensations,
          "finish" (aftertaste)[6],
          – are combined in order to establish the following properties of a wine:,



          complexity and character,
          potential (suitability for aging or drinking),
          possible faults



          A wine's overall quality assessment, based on this examination, follows further careful description and comparison with recognized standards, both with respect to other wines in its price range and according to known factors pertaining to the region or vintage; if it is typical of the region or diverges in style; if it uses certain wine-making techniques, such as barrel fermentation or malolactic fermentation, or any other remarkable or unusual characteristics.[7]



          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_tasting






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.




















          • Wine does not change to vinegar if it is bottled and properly stored in airtight containers. It is only when the fermentation process is allowed to continue that vinegar is produced. Oxygen is a necessary element for fermentation and bottling eliminates the oxygen..

            – Dan
            8 hours ago













          3












          3








          3







          It was customary at the time to serve the good wine first while people were still sober and discriminating. The poor wine would be served later when the guests were somewhat intoxicated and not so likely to notice the quality of the beverage being served.



          In “The Tastes of Wine: Towards a Cultural History, by Steven Shapin, Aristotle listed «the species of flavour», and one can recognize these species as close to our modern neuro-physiologically-informed basic taste categories of sweet, sour, bitter, and salty: there were the opposing categories, sweet and bitter. The former included the succulent, and the latter, the salty. Somewhere in between came the pungent, the harsh, the astringent, and the acid.



          Pliny referred to wine tastes as “tart”, “sharp”, “harsh”, “hard”, “rough”, “luscious”, and “unripe”, and tasting too much of wood – all bad things – and, for evidently good tastes, he deployed a more restricted and less referential repertoire, notably including “pretty”, “pleasant”, and, of course, “sweet”.



          But, as Andrew Dalby notes, Roman connoisseurs rarely mentioned what must have been one of the main taste elements of foreign wines, many of which were brined and spiced to stabilize them for sea transport.



          https://journals.openedition.org/estetica/1395?lang=en



          Although the practice of tasting is as old as the history of wine, the term "tasting" first appeared in 1519.[4] The methodology of wine tasting was formalized by the 18th century when Linnaeus, Poncelet, and others brought an understanding of tasting up to date.



          The results of the four recognized stages to wine tasting:



          appearance
          "in glass" the aroma of the wine,
          "in mouth" sensations,
          "finish" (aftertaste)[6],
          – are combined in order to establish the following properties of a wine:,



          complexity and character,
          potential (suitability for aging or drinking),
          possible faults



          A wine's overall quality assessment, based on this examination, follows further careful description and comparison with recognized standards, both with respect to other wines in its price range and according to known factors pertaining to the region or vintage; if it is typical of the region or diverges in style; if it uses certain wine-making techniques, such as barrel fermentation or malolactic fermentation, or any other remarkable or unusual characteristics.[7]



          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_tasting






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.










          It was customary at the time to serve the good wine first while people were still sober and discriminating. The poor wine would be served later when the guests were somewhat intoxicated and not so likely to notice the quality of the beverage being served.



          In “The Tastes of Wine: Towards a Cultural History, by Steven Shapin, Aristotle listed «the species of flavour», and one can recognize these species as close to our modern neuro-physiologically-informed basic taste categories of sweet, sour, bitter, and salty: there were the opposing categories, sweet and bitter. The former included the succulent, and the latter, the salty. Somewhere in between came the pungent, the harsh, the astringent, and the acid.



          Pliny referred to wine tastes as “tart”, “sharp”, “harsh”, “hard”, “rough”, “luscious”, and “unripe”, and tasting too much of wood – all bad things – and, for evidently good tastes, he deployed a more restricted and less referential repertoire, notably including “pretty”, “pleasant”, and, of course, “sweet”.



          But, as Andrew Dalby notes, Roman connoisseurs rarely mentioned what must have been one of the main taste elements of foreign wines, many of which were brined and spiced to stabilize them for sea transport.



          https://journals.openedition.org/estetica/1395?lang=en



          Although the practice of tasting is as old as the history of wine, the term "tasting" first appeared in 1519.[4] The methodology of wine tasting was formalized by the 18th century when Linnaeus, Poncelet, and others brought an understanding of tasting up to date.



          The results of the four recognized stages to wine tasting:



          appearance
          "in glass" the aroma of the wine,
          "in mouth" sensations,
          "finish" (aftertaste)[6],
          – are combined in order to establish the following properties of a wine:,



          complexity and character,
          potential (suitability for aging or drinking),
          possible faults



          A wine's overall quality assessment, based on this examination, follows further careful description and comparison with recognized standards, both with respect to other wines in its price range and according to known factors pertaining to the region or vintage; if it is typical of the region or diverges in style; if it uses certain wine-making techniques, such as barrel fermentation or malolactic fermentation, or any other remarkable or unusual characteristics.[7]



          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_tasting







          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 8 hours ago





















          New contributor




          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered 8 hours ago









          DanDan

          808




          808




          New contributor




          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.












          • Wine does not change to vinegar if it is bottled and properly stored in airtight containers. It is only when the fermentation process is allowed to continue that vinegar is produced. Oxygen is a necessary element for fermentation and bottling eliminates the oxygen..

            – Dan
            8 hours ago

















          • Wine does not change to vinegar if it is bottled and properly stored in airtight containers. It is only when the fermentation process is allowed to continue that vinegar is produced. Oxygen is a necessary element for fermentation and bottling eliminates the oxygen..

            – Dan
            8 hours ago
















          Wine does not change to vinegar if it is bottled and properly stored in airtight containers. It is only when the fermentation process is allowed to continue that vinegar is produced. Oxygen is a necessary element for fermentation and bottling eliminates the oxygen..

          – Dan
          8 hours ago





          Wine does not change to vinegar if it is bottled and properly stored in airtight containers. It is only when the fermentation process is allowed to continue that vinegar is produced. Oxygen is a necessary element for fermentation and bottling eliminates the oxygen..

          – Dan
          8 hours ago











          2














          Let us remind ourselves of a few facts about this wedding incident in John 2:1-12.



          • The Greek word οἶνος (oinos), according to BDAG always refers to "a beverage made from fermented juice of the grape, wine; the word for 'must' or unfermented grape juice is 'trux';"[not used in the NT]. This is confirmed by all its other uses in the NT: Matt 9:17, 27:34, Luke 1:15, 7:33, 10:34, Rom 14:21, Eph 5:18, 1 Tim 3:8, 5:23, Titus 2:3, Rev 6:6, 14:8, 10, 16:19, 17:2, 18:3, 13, 19:15.

          • Grapes were harvested and processed into wine in about September before the feast of Trumpets.

          • The wedding occurred just before the time of the Passover (John 2:13), about March. Therefore, fresh wine would be unavailable - only bottled wine would be available.

          • When wine is exposed to the oxygen in the air, the (ethyl-) alcohol is (slowly) oxidised to vinegar (acetic acid) creating an inferior drink. Thus, wines were, wherever possible, stored in wineskins (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) to minimise this effect. These leather bottles were not cheap and could only be used once (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) and thus making good wine more expensive than un-bottled wine that goes sour (see Matt 27:34, 48, Mark 15:36, Luke 23:36, John 19:29).

          • The verb μεθυσθῶσιν (methysthōsin = are drunk/intoxicated) (John 2:10) from the lexical form μεθύω (methuó) means to get drunk and intoxicated as indicated in its other NT uses: Matt 24:49, Acts 2:15, 1 Cor 11:21, 1 Thess 5:7, Rev 17:6.

          • The usual practice at feasts was to serve the good (not sour) wine first so that by the time it ran out, guests would be drunk and happy to drink almost anything including the sour wine. The pulpit commentary observes:


          The best wine is appropriately given when the seneca are keenest, but
          when the climax of the festival has come, when they have drunk too
          deeply, or are intoxicated, then the weaker, poorer, and less fragrant
          wine is acceptable.




          Thus, "good" wine simply meant wine that was good to taste and not yet oxidised to become sour. I am sure it also meant wine from the best vineyards with the best aroma, etc, as well.






          share|improve this answer























          • "good wine" as it is used here is a metaphor. The chemistry is somewhat irrelevant.

            – C. Stirling Bartholomew
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            What, in the text, makes you believe this is just a metaphor?

            – Mac's Musings
            5 hours ago















          2














          Let us remind ourselves of a few facts about this wedding incident in John 2:1-12.



          • The Greek word οἶνος (oinos), according to BDAG always refers to "a beverage made from fermented juice of the grape, wine; the word for 'must' or unfermented grape juice is 'trux';"[not used in the NT]. This is confirmed by all its other uses in the NT: Matt 9:17, 27:34, Luke 1:15, 7:33, 10:34, Rom 14:21, Eph 5:18, 1 Tim 3:8, 5:23, Titus 2:3, Rev 6:6, 14:8, 10, 16:19, 17:2, 18:3, 13, 19:15.

          • Grapes were harvested and processed into wine in about September before the feast of Trumpets.

          • The wedding occurred just before the time of the Passover (John 2:13), about March. Therefore, fresh wine would be unavailable - only bottled wine would be available.

          • When wine is exposed to the oxygen in the air, the (ethyl-) alcohol is (slowly) oxidised to vinegar (acetic acid) creating an inferior drink. Thus, wines were, wherever possible, stored in wineskins (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) to minimise this effect. These leather bottles were not cheap and could only be used once (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) and thus making good wine more expensive than un-bottled wine that goes sour (see Matt 27:34, 48, Mark 15:36, Luke 23:36, John 19:29).

          • The verb μεθυσθῶσιν (methysthōsin = are drunk/intoxicated) (John 2:10) from the lexical form μεθύω (methuó) means to get drunk and intoxicated as indicated in its other NT uses: Matt 24:49, Acts 2:15, 1 Cor 11:21, 1 Thess 5:7, Rev 17:6.

          • The usual practice at feasts was to serve the good (not sour) wine first so that by the time it ran out, guests would be drunk and happy to drink almost anything including the sour wine. The pulpit commentary observes:


          The best wine is appropriately given when the seneca are keenest, but
          when the climax of the festival has come, when they have drunk too
          deeply, or are intoxicated, then the weaker, poorer, and less fragrant
          wine is acceptable.




          Thus, "good" wine simply meant wine that was good to taste and not yet oxidised to become sour. I am sure it also meant wine from the best vineyards with the best aroma, etc, as well.






          share|improve this answer























          • "good wine" as it is used here is a metaphor. The chemistry is somewhat irrelevant.

            – C. Stirling Bartholomew
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            What, in the text, makes you believe this is just a metaphor?

            – Mac's Musings
            5 hours ago













          2












          2








          2







          Let us remind ourselves of a few facts about this wedding incident in John 2:1-12.



          • The Greek word οἶνος (oinos), according to BDAG always refers to "a beverage made from fermented juice of the grape, wine; the word for 'must' or unfermented grape juice is 'trux';"[not used in the NT]. This is confirmed by all its other uses in the NT: Matt 9:17, 27:34, Luke 1:15, 7:33, 10:34, Rom 14:21, Eph 5:18, 1 Tim 3:8, 5:23, Titus 2:3, Rev 6:6, 14:8, 10, 16:19, 17:2, 18:3, 13, 19:15.

          • Grapes were harvested and processed into wine in about September before the feast of Trumpets.

          • The wedding occurred just before the time of the Passover (John 2:13), about March. Therefore, fresh wine would be unavailable - only bottled wine would be available.

          • When wine is exposed to the oxygen in the air, the (ethyl-) alcohol is (slowly) oxidised to vinegar (acetic acid) creating an inferior drink. Thus, wines were, wherever possible, stored in wineskins (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) to minimise this effect. These leather bottles were not cheap and could only be used once (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) and thus making good wine more expensive than un-bottled wine that goes sour (see Matt 27:34, 48, Mark 15:36, Luke 23:36, John 19:29).

          • The verb μεθυσθῶσιν (methysthōsin = are drunk/intoxicated) (John 2:10) from the lexical form μεθύω (methuó) means to get drunk and intoxicated as indicated in its other NT uses: Matt 24:49, Acts 2:15, 1 Cor 11:21, 1 Thess 5:7, Rev 17:6.

          • The usual practice at feasts was to serve the good (not sour) wine first so that by the time it ran out, guests would be drunk and happy to drink almost anything including the sour wine. The pulpit commentary observes:


          The best wine is appropriately given when the seneca are keenest, but
          when the climax of the festival has come, when they have drunk too
          deeply, or are intoxicated, then the weaker, poorer, and less fragrant
          wine is acceptable.




          Thus, "good" wine simply meant wine that was good to taste and not yet oxidised to become sour. I am sure it also meant wine from the best vineyards with the best aroma, etc, as well.






          share|improve this answer













          Let us remind ourselves of a few facts about this wedding incident in John 2:1-12.



          • The Greek word οἶνος (oinos), according to BDAG always refers to "a beverage made from fermented juice of the grape, wine; the word for 'must' or unfermented grape juice is 'trux';"[not used in the NT]. This is confirmed by all its other uses in the NT: Matt 9:17, 27:34, Luke 1:15, 7:33, 10:34, Rom 14:21, Eph 5:18, 1 Tim 3:8, 5:23, Titus 2:3, Rev 6:6, 14:8, 10, 16:19, 17:2, 18:3, 13, 19:15.

          • Grapes were harvested and processed into wine in about September before the feast of Trumpets.

          • The wedding occurred just before the time of the Passover (John 2:13), about March. Therefore, fresh wine would be unavailable - only bottled wine would be available.

          • When wine is exposed to the oxygen in the air, the (ethyl-) alcohol is (slowly) oxidised to vinegar (acetic acid) creating an inferior drink. Thus, wines were, wherever possible, stored in wineskins (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) to minimise this effect. These leather bottles were not cheap and could only be used once (Matthew 9:17 Mark 2:22 Luke 5:37) and thus making good wine more expensive than un-bottled wine that goes sour (see Matt 27:34, 48, Mark 15:36, Luke 23:36, John 19:29).

          • The verb μεθυσθῶσιν (methysthōsin = are drunk/intoxicated) (John 2:10) from the lexical form μεθύω (methuó) means to get drunk and intoxicated as indicated in its other NT uses: Matt 24:49, Acts 2:15, 1 Cor 11:21, 1 Thess 5:7, Rev 17:6.

          • The usual practice at feasts was to serve the good (not sour) wine first so that by the time it ran out, guests would be drunk and happy to drink almost anything including the sour wine. The pulpit commentary observes:


          The best wine is appropriately given when the seneca are keenest, but
          when the climax of the festival has come, when they have drunk too
          deeply, or are intoxicated, then the weaker, poorer, and less fragrant
          wine is acceptable.




          Thus, "good" wine simply meant wine that was good to taste and not yet oxidised to become sour. I am sure it also meant wine from the best vineyards with the best aroma, etc, as well.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 6 hours ago









          Mac's MusingsMac's Musings

          6,455118




          6,455118












          • "good wine" as it is used here is a metaphor. The chemistry is somewhat irrelevant.

            – C. Stirling Bartholomew
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            What, in the text, makes you believe this is just a metaphor?

            – Mac's Musings
            5 hours ago

















          • "good wine" as it is used here is a metaphor. The chemistry is somewhat irrelevant.

            – C. Stirling Bartholomew
            5 hours ago







          • 1





            What, in the text, makes you believe this is just a metaphor?

            – Mac's Musings
            5 hours ago
















          "good wine" as it is used here is a metaphor. The chemistry is somewhat irrelevant.

          – C. Stirling Bartholomew
          5 hours ago






          "good wine" as it is used here is a metaphor. The chemistry is somewhat irrelevant.

          – C. Stirling Bartholomew
          5 hours ago





          1




          1





          What, in the text, makes you believe this is just a metaphor?

          – Mac's Musings
          5 hours ago





          What, in the text, makes you believe this is just a metaphor?

          – Mac's Musings
          5 hours ago

















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